Yeah, caucuses probably started because it used to be much harder to just count every vote, but there’s no excuse to have them today! They’re anti-democratic and by nature favor the ruling class, as they’re the ones who have the resources to drop everything to stand around in a gymnasium for hours and hours. Shout out to the Bernie supporters who made it out anyway!!
Next week I’ll get my ballot in the mail, as long as I fill it out and get it in the mailbox by the Friday before Super Tuesday, then my vote in the 2020 democratic primary will be counted and reported promptly. I live in one of the most conservative states in the country. A better, fairer world is possible y’all!!!
I’m seeing the ‘Bernie or Bust’ crowd reappear again, and HOO BOY. Bad takes alert.
Listen, I know the choices surrounding Bernie aren’t the best, but P L E A S E do not think that if you can’t get Bernie it can’t get any worse. Trump could win again. THAT IS WORSE. That would be devastating to any numbers of people. PLEASE don’t do this shit again.
I want Bernie to win, but I’m under no illusions here. As shitty as Biden is, he’s a hell of a lot better than Trump. We’ll basically get a worse Obama, which is better than whatever that scumbag has planned for his second term. May I remind you, we have CHILDREN IN CAGES at the border. This shit is dire. PLEASE do not be an ass and refuse to vote blue if we don’t get Bernie. Too much is at stake here.
Didn’t an overwhelming number of Bernie supporters end up voting for Clinton in the general last time? So yeah I’d assume the Bernie or Bust thing is more sound and fury than anything else. Personally I’d vote for Bernie or Warren without complaint, but I live in MA so my vote doesn’t count for much.
This was happening under Obama too. I can understand the feeling that radical change is the only thing worth supporting. For me, it is VERY important that we get Trump out of office, but colonial imperialism is, and always will be an evil and destructive force. I can understand why people don’t just want to go back to ignoring it because the president isn’t nakedly corrupt and racist.
Yeah, but not on the scale its happening now. The abuses and rampant negligence is beyond whatever Obama was doing.
And I’m not saying to ignore injustice, I’m saying to not be passive about this election just because you don’t get your guy. The risks are far too great.
This is probably true, but impossible to say for certain because things weren’t under as much scrutiny then.
Look, I agree with your general point, but you don’t need to be reductionist about it. These people aren’t saying this because their team didn’t win, they’re saying it because of the principals they hold. If you really want these people to vote for whoever gets the nomination it’s probably counterproductive to chide them for acting childish or whatever.
I wrote out a long post, then deleted it to focus on one point. I think one thing that gets lost in the Bernie or Bust conversation is that the electoral college makes many of our votes effectively meaningless. I threw away my vote in 2016 by voting for Jill Stein. I didn’t think she would make a good president, but I liked her better than Clinton. I did so knowing that Washington state would almost certainly go blue, so I was safe in my protest vote. If I lived in an equally red state with no hope that my vote would turn the tide, I might have made a similar choice.
Bernie or bust is only a radical position for a small portion of the country which can reasonably be considered swing states. After that, it’s all optics. And I’m getting pretty sick of optics.
The “I will not vote for any other Democrat if Bernie doesn’t win the primary” is actually pretty useful optics against the tiresome electability rhetoric, which ended up being proven hilariously wrong considering how badly Biden lost in Iowa.
If your goal is to actually enact a large enough change in this country’s policy priorities, then every other candidate is very unlikely to move the needle in that regard. We’re staring down the barrel of accelerated authoritarianism and climate change, another Obama-type candidate who tries to compromise with Mitch McConnell’s intransigent congressional majority is not going to put us in any better of a position in 4 years than we’re in right now.
Here’s my question, do ya’ll really think candidates like Biden, Buttigieg, or even Warren, who capitulated to fucking Meghan McCain, will actually fucking fight to shut down ICE camps, or try to do something about your country’s healthcare nightmare? Even when they run directly into the brick wall of McConnell’s senate?
It doesn’t matter which Democract becomes president, they’re all gonna get stonewalled because Republicans DO NOT, AND WILL NOT, OPERATE IN GOOD FAITH, EVER. You may as well pick the one viable candidate who doesn’t seem like he buys into the deluded belief that America’s hard right can be reasoned with.
And, if that viable candidate gets ratfucked out of the nomination, I think it’s time to seriously consider that the Democratic party just isn’t worth saving.
See, I don’t think anyone is going to move the needle that much because our institutions are so reactionary, and that the primary is a choice between candidates who are going to make things less bad. I happen to think Bernie is probably the most less bad (still workshopping this one) candidate, but that fundamentally any Democrat will be less bad than Trump.
Honestly, vote for your blue do nothing compromise candidates if you want, but if that’s all you’re doing then you’re not helping move us away from climate catastrophe.
I think there’s more important work to be done away from the ballot box. And with each election I get more and more frustrated because: 1. Things like the Iowa debacle happen and reveal the whole thing to be kind of fraudulent, and 2. Folks seem to think voting is all they’ll need to do to save the world.
Voting will not stop the climate apocalypse.
Especially if you vote for a candidate who will compromise with capital to the degree people like Warren, Biden, etc absolutely will.
Bernie is the only electable choice that matters, that will give us an edge in the mainstream. I’m sorry, but after reading the IPPC stuff, after reading Deep Adaptation, after reading and keeping track of all the climate stuff, we don’t have time to be wringing our hands over “lesser evils” we need radical change now.
But the changes people want always come within the pre-established systems, never from the outside. I’m sorry, but I don’t think there will ever be a socdem party with the support of a vast majority of Americans. The Tea Party was an internal Republican movement. The Tea Party Party wasn’t a thing… Even when the parties switched values in the 60s, they still kept the names. I hate the two party structure, but I don’t see Americans supporting new parties anytime soon. The change we want in the Democratic party has to come from within, which is why Bernie is running as a Dem in the first place.
The unfortunate thing is, it’s very unlikely that any elected Democrat would be able to do much against Republican congressional stonewalling. But having a candidate who would be willing to actually push back is the sort of invigorating fire that would energize the average working class American into real activism.
One of my hopes is that if Bernie wins that he’s pumping out so many Executive Actions that the GOP can’t keep up, much like Trump’s current strategy. Think if how much the Democrats have just… Let go because one outrage has been replaced with another.
I strongly, intensely, disagree. I think this is what entrenched power wants us to think.
People in other countries have shifted power through organizing and movements in the streets. We could do the same. Our media and politicians have convinced the majority of us that playing their game is the only option. It’s not.
It’s possible that once upon a time there was a reason for it, but that reason has been lost to time. It’s a bit like why my mom always breaks out the oplatki before dinner on Christmas Eve: it’s just the way it’s always been done.
But what does it do? Say this Pete guy “wins” Iowa. Does that mean all of Iowa can only vote for him on the democratic side when the actual presidential vote happens?
This caucus was just the initial round of voting internal to the Democratic party. The general election is separate, administered by each state and territory as part of the federal election. Your vote in a primary or caucus does not bind you to that same vote in the general. (edited for clarity)
