British Politics

Being part of the EU would make it impossible to implement some of the socialist reforms that Corbyn would hope to implement.

At least that’s my understanding.

Edit:

Also, it’s worth noting that there is a significant portion of the population that is pro-brexit, and Labour doesn’t necessarily want to alienate those who do still vote labour.

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Ah, so they’re just like US Democrats: Extremely stupid and more obsessed with protecting their own power over actually accomplishing anything.

I guess it could be argued that they do want to change things. I’m fairly pro-EU in most aspects, but there’s no doubt that the EU is a fairly financially liberal institution, and rolling back decades of privatization and pushing it evem further could prove difficult, if Britain remained part of the EU.

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No, not at all. Labour’s agenda is about the furthest thing - at least, in the context of present British politics - from ‘protecting their own power over actually accomplishing anything’ in the style of the US Democrats. One of the biggest criticisms commonly levied at them at the moment - a criticism that I firmly disagree with - is that they’ve become too radical, and moved too far to the Left. Our Democrat equivalents are the aptly named Liberal Democrats, who are in essence pro-Remain Tories with some of the prejudice filed off. Very much ‘the problems are bad, but the causes… the causes are good’ in political party form.

Labour’s Brexit policy is quite simple, really. Negotiate a more sensible deal with the EU than the Tories can manage - because Labour don’t have the same ‘red lines’ over immigration or what have you, and so are much more open to ‘softer’ Brexit options - and then put that deal to a new referendum with Remain, within six months of coming to power.

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brexit was a bad idea, is still is a bad idea but there is literally no way for labour to come out against it without guaranteeing a loss at the next election, no matter how illegitimate the referendum was (by whatever metric)

everyone leading the charge over the past 3 years trying to illuminate the problems with the vote have failed miserably because to do that effectively, you would need to go back in time and blow up all the printing presses that have been chugging out pure shite about the EU for the last 30 years

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Also, Jeremy Corbyn is not a fan of the EU and for better or worse tends to stick to his principles. The fact that he stuck to his principles for so long kept him on the fringes of UK politics for most of his career until people started to think that this was probably better than the neoliberal dumbfuckery that most other MPs engage in.

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Corbyn had the most sensible position of any prominent politician during the referendum. Supporting Remain but giving the EU a 7/10. Remain and Reform is probably the best we should aim for rn even if the EU seems determined to prove that reforming it in a positive direction is a futile exercise.

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as someone living in an extremely labour safe seat and one of the highest leave-voting areas, labour’s only choice is what they’re proposing, which is a deal/remain referrendum. the first ref was a nightmare but they can’t just ignore it and alienate so much of their electorate.

So the thing I still don’t understand what the demographics of pro-brexit Labour voters are. Who are they and where are they concentrated?

And what I really don’t get is the Euroscepticism of leftist leaders like Corbyn. I understand a lot of the problems with the EU, especially its response to the financial crisis, but the benefits seem to outweigh the problems. The three freedoms seem genuinely great. And it achieved something unprecedented in history: Peace in Europe. The fact that major European nations are no longer dragging each other and the rest of the world into devastating all-consuming wars every few decades is a remarkable achievement. I think we’ve forgotten just how incredibly militarized the entire continent was before the end of WWII. Paris built new city walls in the 1840s that weren’t torn down until the 1920s. Before WWI German men of military age carried their mobilization orders with them all the time. The EU has made that unnecessary. Throwing that out because of disagreements over fiscal policies and regulatory structures seems like a classic example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

i mean there’s also shit like this tbh

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That’s due to the policies of other member states, not the EU. How does leaving make it better?

The EU has interfered in the affairs of member state countries that have sought to resist austerity measures but has been conspicuously quiet fine with countries such as Spain and Hungary building more walls to prevent refugees from seeking asylum in Europe. Couple that with their recent announcement of a Commissioner for “Protecting the European Way of Life” and I think it’s apparent that building Fortress Europe is something the EU is happy with.

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Also a lot of people see voting labour and voting leave as two entirely separate entities. there are places in the north that will never ever ever vote tory because of (amongst many other things) left over anti-tory sentiment from thatcher days. that’s completely separate to the EU voting, when you add in corbyn’s euro-scepticism and the scapegoating of the working class as in danger due to eu migration, its not all that difficult to see why there are labour areas that voted leave

But how does leaving the EU help that? Exiting means even less influence over EU and member state policies.

It doesn’t.

/15 char

I’m not saying that exiting helps. I voted (very reluctantly) Remain but the big problem I see with “Remain and Reform” is that the EU has no interest in reforming itself in a positive direction. I also dispute that it’s the EU itself that has prevented war on the continent post-World War Two. There’s a strong argument to be made that the threat of nuclear annihilation, the duopoly of the Cold War and then hegemony of the United States, and even the post-war expansion of social democracy and the welfare state have done more to preserve peace in western Europe more than the EU as an institution in itself.

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Yep, plus it certainly hasn’t stopped European nations from supporting American imperialism or even stopping internal human rights abuses (against migrants, or Rromani, Jewish, etc. Europeans). Certainly not doing much to stop the rise of fascism, Mussolini’s granddaughter was a MEP until a few months ago.

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In my local constituency, the Conservative MP won the last election, 2017, with over a 10,000 vote lead (over 20% of the votes more than second place) whereas only a few minutes away the last election was decided by under 400 votes (0.69% - nice - of the vote)

It’s very annoying to be so close to a contestable seat but sitting in an incredibly safe Tory one. It’s even more annoying knowing that most of my public services are controlled by the other marginal constituency and I have no say.

The Remain Alliance electoral pact posted its targeted seats and one of the Lib Dem ones, Warrington South, is a Labour marginal that they won in 2017 with a 2500 majority. The Lib Dems gained 3000 votes at the last election and the Tory challenger is an arch Brexiteer. Either the Lib Dems/ Remainers are the most inept campaigners on planet earth or they’ve zero interest in stopping Brexit. It’s especially grating when the Brexit Party appear to be playing their part as the external faction of the Conservative Party to perfection.