Catherine - Is love over?


#1

Atlus just announced a remaster with a new character, stages, and scenes and I felt it was a good time to talk about this game since it was the first game that was pretty divisive not just by it gameplay, which has some good puzzle climbing moments and some pretty poorly designed ones, but it lessens and characters. I learned a lot about that love isn’t easy and that you just need to look carefully at what you want from love. However, it has problems with character development with the female cast and a iffy attempt at a trans characters.

So what your thoughts on Catherine either when it first came out and what you want from this remaster if you’re looking to play it again?

Shout-out to @patrick.klepek for his article on Catherine when he was at Giant bomb which mirror most of my views.


#2

My only thoughts on the story are this:

Erica :clap:t5: deserves :clap:t5: better.

Anyway, the only thing remotely exciting and probably the reason why I’ll buy it again is because the multiplayer will have online. Catherine multiplayer is sooo goooood.


#3

EDGE!

I think Catherine, though flawed, does some pretty surprising and unique things, and ultimately puts together some sharp commentary on modern dating. I’m glad that I played it.

I also found the puzzles insufferably annoying when I played it (though I did have limited time, which made that worse than it probably would have otherwise been), mainly because of some really, really wonky controls. So I really have no desire to play it again.


#4

I appreciate the effort that the competitive scene has done for Catherine over the years. Surreal that Atlus took notice of it and added multiplayer. The road to EVO is soon.


#5

I remember seeing Cathrine at EVO in a small corner years back, but it’s gone the last two. I really hope the addition of online and being on a modern console brings it back to a competitive scene. EVO needs more wacky ‘fighting’ games to keep it interesting and fresh.


#6

After Persona 5 I can’t Imagine a scenario where the story and characters of this game hold up at all so I can’t say I’m super interested in this like I would have been a year or two ago


#7

I ADORED this game at the time. At the time it wasn’t a narrative I was used to seeing in games, tied with a rhythmic gameplay loop that I loved jumping in and out of. I’m ready to play it again on a newer console.


#8

Catherine is excellent and I’m glad more people will get to play it. I only got around to it in 2016, but it still left a big impression on me. Part of it was the sheer unlikeability of the player character Vincent (which I wrote up here) but also because there’s really nothing else like it in the major studio AAA space. I loved Persona 5, but I do hope that dev team gets to fly their freak flag on their next game. Maybe this rerelease is to stir up interest in a follow up Catherine game?


#9

They talked about doing similar games in the near future. I wonder if their fantasy project will have those elements of that or have a new team to do Catherine like games. I do hope they do more point & click than puzzles.


#10

Catherine is such a mixed bag.

The puzzle sections, other than the bosses, were really unique, interesting, and challenging. It was unlike any other puzzle game I had played, and I really like the general aesthetic. The voice acting and character designs were all very good, and I liked that the game was tackling more adult subject matter.

Then it went totally off the rails in a way that robs all the characters of any agency and makes the entire struggle utterly moot. When it was the story of a man who couldn’t get his life together and whose problematic life choices kept coming back to bite him, it was an interesting exploration of personal accountability and cowardice. When the reason that keeps happening becomes actual magic, then who gives a damn?

Also the morality and choice portion of the game fell completely flat the moment it had gameplay relevance. The questions you’re being asked no longer have any teeth when you aren’t answering honestly as much as you’re answering to get the best or worst possible ending. Silent Hill Shattered Dimensions did this best where it colored the world in certain ways, but didn’t have an immediate and obvious binary result.

I’d love a more grounded Catherine, with a more interesting take on themes like fidelity and maturity that ditched the boss battles entirely.


#11

I personally saw all the supernatural stuff as a sort of reckoning for Vincent’s poor life choices. Like, yeah he technically didn’t have control of his cheating as Catherine is a succubus, but his decision to not be honest with either Catherine or Katherine of the situation was by Vincent’s own agency. I personally liked the fact that he was this selfish person whose decisions I couldn’t really change. I dunno, that whole struggle with player character agency was one of the things that really resonated with me, but I can see how it can come off as grating to others.


#12

I don’t have a problem with player agency, I have a problem with player agency with an obvious and spelled out end. I’m being graded on a scale, it’s obvious that these numbers are going to mean something later on, so I have no incentive to be honest. Deep down inside most gamers are going to know that falling somewhere in the middle is going to give them the least satisfying conclusion, so they’re going to tilt. Again it’s why the Silent Hill thing worked so well for me. Yes, I can look up a guide after the fact to see what effect my choices have, but when you’re doing those moments talking to the therapist and answering personality questions, you’re never certain how much of what you’re answering effects the later parts. I’m way more likely to be honest when I don’t see a shining “best ending” dangling in the distance.

At some point I guess you can see the supernatural not entirely robbing Vincent of his problems, but it’s just felt like a remarkable cop out on what could have been a much more human problem.


#13

The funny part about that is the “best” ending (in my opinion) is when you keep the meter balanced. So in a way it actually subverts player compulsion!


#14

I’m not saying some games don’t manage to subvert it, but generally those games are few and far between. You either get the good ending, the bad ending, or some weird middle ground where they just kind of shrug.


#15

I watched an LP of this game, as I didn’t have the console to play it, but I really like any puzzle that involves moving blocks around. While the levels struck me as something I would have a lot of fun playing, it got to a point where I wished it was completely divorced from the game. Some people might find that kind of story interesting, but honestly I don’t give a single fuck about Vincent, Catherine is really infantilized and stalker-y in a way I find uncomfortable, and Katherine is written as being “unreasonable” in spite of the fact that she has her life together and only wishes Vincent would get his shit together if they’re going to be in a relationship.

Also, the transphobia Atlus throws in with Erica is really unnecessary and shitty, and their constant trend with shitting on queer people is why I refuse to pay money for their games and just watch LPs instead.

I think the interesting thing about this remake or whatever is that it adds a third girl, who we’re going to call Quatheryn for now, and her design is already a huge fucking red flag. She looks like a high schooler and there’s very obvious markers of her being the “innocent” girl. Considering Persona 5 and some of the romances available to the teenage protagonist of that game, I feel that this bodes ill.

TL;DR: Love isn’t over but I wish it was.


#16

If you just like the gameplay, there’s an arcade cabinet inside the bar that is nothing but moving block puzzles. It’s a little different because it’s not timed and the floor isn’t falling, but it gives you a great and very challenging set of puzzles to work out with none of the plot or other stuff.

The rest of the stuff is absolutely icky however.


#17

Atlus: “Hey you know what catherine definitely needed more of? Transphobia!!!”

Fuck this game. I’m so sick of Atlus and i’m sick of all their shitty defenders.


#18

Can’t really be sure since it still early releases but that would be pretty damning if that the angle their going with. It was already bad with Erica “reveal” and how many of the characters treat her, so the last thing we want is for the new character to end up being a catalyst to more anti-LGBTQ in the gaming space.


#19

With their track record , and with everything else Laura lists in that thread. there is a .000001% chance this is any good.

It’s also good advice to not belittle the feelings of marginalized people being misrepresented in the media.


#20

There are changes happening within Atlus with there next projects but from the looks of this they haven’t diverted from the this project’s stance. So in the end Atlus is in a mix bag depending how this and their next project will be receive.