Catherine - Is love over?


#21

@WeedLordVegeta made a very good point about catherine:

“I think you can do awful character studies without demonizing the marginalized”


#22

A large portion of the justifications have been “well he’s an asshole character so he’s naturally going to react like this”. Maybe writers shouldn’t be putting trans characters in situations where they’re guaranteed to face the same transphobia we’ve seen time and time again?

Why are gamers so eager to go to bat for bad sociopolitical content in Japanese games


#23

Because gamers are bad


#24

That why we need to keep pushing them or at least let them know.


#25

Atlus is a company mainly run by homophobes and it’s become really obvious lately because they just keep doubling down on terrible decisions after a decade of people complaining about the Persona games, so it’s REALLY hard for me to bother defending them anymore, even if P4 was probably one of the most influential games I ever played.

When someone shows you who they really are, sometimes it’s best to just believe them. As long as Team Persona is headed by the same people, things will never change and us silly queers just have to put up with playing what should be great games that have odd or constant moments that remind us the greater cultural worldview hates us or sees us as oddities.

You can easily argue Persona 5’s whole politically rebellious message is horseshit because it includes a fucking gay panic scene for a cheap laugh and still refuses to even entertain the idea of queer characters in the main cast. We’re actually going backwards from Persona 2, who’s portrayal of a major gay character was messy at best and offensive at worst. At least they were there and had a significant role beyond “LOL GAY” or another bloody scene of people being queerphobic dicks or undermining their gender or sexual identity.

And don’t even get me started on the undercurrent of misogyny in these games, especially with Catherine.


#26

I would really like to say this Catherine news is not the least surprising thing I have ever heard but alas it’s ATLUS

I’m sure this will all be “More complicated than that!” and will “Do some interesting things later on that other games just aren’t doing!” but damn if I am just not as done as I can be with this shit


#27

Yeah, this remaster was kinda something they didn’t really need to do other than pass the time till they have something to say for Project fantasy. Even that they could had made something else for that team to do.


#28

Just letting you know this shit is seeing some waves of disgust through the competitive Catherine scene, a scene that largely did not care about the story. A few, myself included, have already quit the Catherine competitive scene due to the game doubling down on its transphobia.


#29

Given the following that these games have in the progressive games scene, this feels like it’s going to be a big litmus test. The pessimist in me thinks there’s going to be a lot of folks letting it slide, or sidestepping discussion, or pulling out the tired “yeah it’s bad but it’s my problematic fave” line, and I’ll have no patience for any of it.


#30

New endings have already been confirmed and a couple are presumably for Rin, so I’m personally gonna wait for spoilers when it comes out in Japan before passing judgment, though I don’t think it’s unfair for y’all to not give it that much.
Also, everyone seems to be jumping to the conclusion that she’s trans, but I was under the impression that she might be intersex instead. Which would still be bad if mishandled, of course, and doesn’t at all change @slimesiren’s estimate of it going wrong…


#31

Okay, this is the only valid “Maybe she’s not trans!” take I’ve seen today, but, as you said, it doesn’t make it any better.


#32

Atlus’ track record makes it hard to be optimistic that trans and queer issues will be handled well. However, the original Catherine had a lot to say about becoming an adult and putting away childish ideas and world views. Hopefully the developers have been treated to a bit of introspection on this as well. I’d like to see Vincent and Toby taken to task for their shitty behavior, but I doubt we’re going to see that.


#33

Interesting piece on Japan’s views on identity and where it going.

This really gets to where I wanted to know on the subject since I had a hard time finding solid info on it.


#34

There’s a new Catherine trailer and I am already too angry to watch it.

How transphobic is it from 1 being not at all and 10 being off the charts aka the last trailer


#35

That’s… hard to say? I don’t remember how much of the dialog being used was already there and in reference to something else, but there are quotes about “Opening up to stuff I’ve never even thought about before” and “A new set of values.” There’s a shot on new Catherine’s body with her skirt lifted, and it ends with new Catherine landing groin first on Vincent’s face anime style and him kind of having a surprised expression when she climbs down. There’s also stuff about this being a nightmare, but in all fairness that is what the game is about in general.

So how you choose to read into those particular choices is going to depend, but there’s no moment where someone starts screaming in terror like last time.


#36

Catherine is basically Are The Straights Okay?: The Video Game