CD Projekt RED Won't Commit to Gender Fluidity in ‘Cyberpunk 2077’ (Yet)


#64

WHOAH, holy shit that’s some 2014 badness right there. Jesus christ, how did I not know about that at all, how was this not news?! That is, like, as close to a literal endorsment of a hate group as you can get by one of the biggest curators on the internet… How did this not blow way the fuck up?


#65

Yeah, Jesus, I’d never even heard of that. That makes me think twice about even using GOG in future. The tweet was deleted, but did they issue any kind of apology?

And the Cyberpunk situation is really disappointing. Between this and that Doom trailer, my excitement for upcoming games is rapidly draining.


#66

Yes, they did. That thing did blow up but the tweet was quickly deleted and they made an actual apology because apparently someone on staff realized what that tweet was actually endorsing ans was like “OH HELL NO”

Of course the tweet got through in the first place, which either means the staff in charge of GOG’s social media is super ignorant or has alt-right chodes on staff.

And before we all start banning gaming companies for this, I feel I should point they ALL have at least one racist embarrassment on staff. Remember when Steam made a blog post explaining a news tab and the example image they shared had a banner for TechRaptor, those leeches that became part of the gater machine? Yeah, that got quickly changed to an IGN banner once people started noticing.

A dumb moron intern making a bad tweet on a social media account is low on the list for burning a bridge with a company because if I did that, I would literally not spend money for my entire life on anything. They have to ROYALLY fuck up - like Steam throwing queer devs and devs that make queer content under the bus after making a big hullabaloo about free speech.

I’m not saying you can’t be mad at all this because it’s all garbage worth being mad over, and I totally get if this is the last straw for you because I mean they did make massive dogwhistles to bigots and conspiracy theorists, but you need to figure out your own personal baseline in this age of late capitalism and rising worldwide fascism or else you’re going to quickly discover there’s nowhere you can ethically play a video game.


#67

i disagree with some of this. as you point out (and as i mentioned in my earlier post in this thread) it’s more than likely that the majority of AAA harbor some people who have foul ideas. no doubt. but it isn’t in the marketing of every AAA game that we see transphobia, or homophobia, or racism, support for gamergate. but we have seen it with CDPR multiple times now.

maybe the “ideology” is everywhere - but it somehow manages to (at the very least) hide itself in quite a few places. some transphobic devs can apparently keep their mouths shut about their hate.

if you stop supporting game devs who say racist/homophobic/transphobic things on twitter, there will still be plenty of other options out there. i’m not saying this is necessary, or the right thing to do, i’m just saying i think it’s a reasonable option. i’m not sure where you’re looking exactly when you seem to imply that the only option is to support devs who inevitably say something racist/transphobic/homophobic on twitter. the videogame space doesn’t look anything like that to me. it seems to me like there are far fewer game devs spouting bullshit on twitter than you’re implying.


#68

The thing, though, is that we’re talking about social media accounts here, not the developers themselves. We’re talking about underpaid interns almost nobody at these companies pay attention to. Company hierarchies are big, complicated things with people from all over in countless roles, many the vast majority of us aren’t even aware exist. To my knowledge (please correct me if I’m wrong), CDPR doesn’t have any current ongoing lawsuits about having racist or homophobic inner culture like Quantic Dream or Riot. It’s biggest sins come from morons running some Twitter accounts and The Witcher series’ terrible portrayal of female characters. I’m sure there’s more (I swear I remember something about a cruddy crunch quote from a higher up but I’m probably mixing it up with other awful things said in other companies), and that should be taken into account, but this being the last straw just feels…I don’t know, kinda eh.

I guess it’s like if I swore off Steam for the accidental TechRaptor banner and not throwing queer people on the tracks. I mean it was a shitty thing that happened, but it’s a type of shitty we’re seeing from pretty much every single industry in existence everywhere and I can’t really go without buying things in general.

I’m just saying the anger should be directed more at the company’s garbage, awful advertising and PR branches, but it doesn’t really speak for the entire company.

Now if they pulled a Bethesda and started actively putting in policies that hurt game reviewers and try to fudge review scores, those branches could be more representative of company culture, not two garbage tweets (one of which was actually given a genuine apology over after deletion).


#69

I think there was a quote they said about unions recently, in French magazine so unless they’ve also said somethin about crunch maybe your are thinking about that?


#70

I don’t think the non-apology helps their case any, but at least they realised it was wrong and deleted it, hopefully actually taking action at the people involved, and reflecting on their standards, instead of just covering their asses.
I reserve the right to stop supporting companies for actions they directly or indirectly take, it’s very easy for public figures and companies to avoid backlash, just don’t say bigoted shit in public.


#71

to me it isn’t doesn’t make too much of a difference if it’s some underpaid transphobic intern or an actual game dev making transphobic tweets. they’re employees of this company. this person’s mistake was brought to the attention of their employer, who decided to put out an absolute garbage apology. at that exact moment, i’ve got no bones with anybody who wants to drop CDPR like a sack of rotten potatoes. one could pull out an organizational chart of the company and figure out where exactly within it the blame lies, or one could just say “i’m not buying games from these people”. i think the latter is a perfectly rational response. it’s easy. there are thousands of game companies who haven’t found themselves in this position. their devs haven’t said dumb stuff like this, their interns haven’t said dumb stuff like this, they have no history of dogwhistling to bigots. it’s easy to play their games instead, if you so choose.

you’re right to point out that ethics in games (and general consumerism) is a tangled and shitty web, and that we all personally need to figure out how best to exist within it. It’s not hard to avoid companies that publicly dehumanize persecuted minorities. It’s a lot harder to avoid companies who don’t pay their employees adequately, or who make them work ridiculous hours.

the idea of an ethical “baseline” is a complicated one for me. It feels too rigid. It’s really hard to be good every day, to make the right choices every day. I think it’s important to be gentle with ourselves when navigating these waters. We might not make the ethical choice every day. We might not make the ethical choice every week. But if we even make it once a month, or once a year, that’s better than saying “ethical choices are impossible, better to not even consider them”; and making no ethical choices at all.

i live on a filthy block in a large american city. if i were to walk around it i’d probably count at least 400 pieces of individual trash that somebody just threw there. can I clean up the whole block? it would take hours, and the week after it’d just be filthy again. but if I pick up a piece of trash or two every other day between my car and my door it makes some amount of difference. it improves the neighborhood, if only briefly. I think it’s much better than saying “this block is filthy, it will always be filthy, let it rot in filth”. i do think that good choices are meaningful, no matter how small they may seem, even if they’re seemingly not changing anything. i’m not saying everyone should boycott CDPR and exclusively buy games from queer creators instead – but doing something like that at least every once in a while makes a difference.

wow, this has been a long ranty post! I’m sorry if i come off too preachy… i know everyone’s heart is in the right place here. i just have some feelings…


#72

would be pretty wild if they allowed for gender fluidity in character creation after all, utterly confounding and betraying the gamergaters who thought CDPR had directly solicited their kinship with this bad tweet for which they made a non-apology. transphobe steam refunds process in exact parity with increased sales to the queer community and its supporters! turns out CDPR doesnt really stand for anything in particular, good OR bad! games are fun


#73

As someone who works in a social team for a games company, they do treat it like a looser branch of PR/Marketing. It’s more quickfire and casual, sure, but the messaging has to be correct and I’ve heard some companies do vet tweets before they’re sent out. Basically, companies the size of CDPR should and would think of anything said on social media as much a representation of the company as a PR statement. I also can’t see them giving the Cyberpunk 2077 account to an intern, possibly the most anticipated game right now.


Cyberpunk 2077 gameplay reveal video
#74

I’d agree with you but then I just glace at everything coming out about Quantic Dream, Valve and Riot and just look at the entire career of Cliffy B and I’m starting to think a lot of game companies don’t exactly work like most businesses unless they’re EA or Activision.

I suspect the person who writes tweets is low on the ladder, and the people in charge of that person aren’t much higher or even a significant thought because it’s becoming clear a lot of these companies have no idea how to handle PR, especially in the hell culture that is gaming culture.


#75

So it sounds like the games demo features a Latino character, who instead of speaking like a real person, speaks like every latinx character that was ever written by a room of white people:

https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/7363-i-m-all-in-on-cyberpunk-2077-but-one-element-of-the-e3-demo-disappointed-me

The disappointments keep comin’ and they won’t stop comin’

edit: I didn’t see that there was a thread discussing the gameplay trailer, my bad!


#76

Jackie is just further proof of how underrated a character James Vega is.


#77

I was ready to hate James Vega, but he won me over pretty quick. I really liked Freddie Prinze Jr.'s performance.


#78

Speaking as an actual Latino person, James Vega sucks and is just the exact same stereotype as always except without any sort of energy to his character due to an acting performance that sounds like the director wanted him to sound like he was close to falling asleep at almost all moments. Also they hid literally anything interesting about him in an anime movie nobody saw.


#79

I guess the trans-hating apple doesn’t fall too far from the CDPR tree. [CW: shitty, awful joke co-opting a hashtag fighting trans discrimination]


#80

You’d think it would be easy for a game digitial storefront to be better than Steam by default, AND YET.

Itchio is a blessing but it sucks I have to get a lot of indie releases from libertarian shitshow and the place that keeps hiring chan board idiots to publicly represent them. GoG is a great store but every time I glance at that Twitter I feel like screaming.


#81


#82

Why is it so fucking hard not to be a piece of shit on the Internet?


#83

This is wild shitty. They should issue an apology.