I’m just ready for more destiny. Destiny is fun.
This was always my assumption.
After you get matched with a clan you can rate their helpfulness. And if a clan is toxic they will get pushed progressively lower on the matchmaking list. If your clan is always super awesome, you will always a LFG, if not, you might sit there for a long time.
Yuuuuuuuup. The changes have, so far, looked like a marked improvement, and also a sly nod back to Halo (you are now basically juggling between two guns and a power weapon, which is really what we all did in Halo anyhow) and the changes in multiplayer will be interesting to see (power ammo being limited but spawning more often could be very interesting in map control modes) but TBH all I want to see now is that Raid. I was sold before they even rolled footage…
I’m hoping clans can mark themselves as “sherpas” so that players can be matched with them easier to do team games, and the “nah bro we’re clan only” ones can also mark themselves as such, to avoid poor pubbers being dumped with dickbags.
The other worry is what if the person who joins you is a dick? I wonder how they’d handle removing that person from the group because I wouldn’t want to be stuck with someone like that if I thought I’d be penalised for dropping them or something
You leave and start the group over and rejoin the raid at a checkpoint. Being able to remove somebody from the raid just invites more possibility for trolling.
Either way people using this feature should be prepared for bad experiences on a semi-regular basis, unless they trivialize the raid content. The hope is just that once you find that one experience that actually works that you stick with that group (or that that group is willing to stick with you) from that point forward.
If you’re the sort of person who doesn’t like raiding on a schedule and just ends up using this thing every week, it’s probably going to be a high ratio of having a bad time.
What if, instead of moving snipers from special due to them being over powered/used they moved it so you could have bows as a Primary?
Then the good players would get good with bows and everybody else would have something new to complain about.
Maybe, but the question is what can be done to minimise that. I don’t think ‘eh just learn to put up with it’ is the best answer we can come up with.
For my part, I’d like our Waypoint clan to be a good example here. Having only just been able to do a raid thanks to these forums, I’m looking forward to discovering the raids for the first time in Destiny 2 and trying to figure them out, and then maybe later helping others to do the same.
I will be curious to see how the rate of bad experiences compares to the current rate on something like /r/fireteams. I have always felt the self selective nature of something like r/fireteams or even DestinyLFG weeds out a lot of the crappy people that might be using the in-game system.
If it is far worse we might see online sites continue on into the D2 years as a way for people to find better groups.
Minimizing bad experiences with strangers on the internet in a “T” rated, big budget, console focused, multiplayer first-person shooter?
Uhhh… trivialize the content to remove any potential proficiency barriers while also making voice chat an opt-in process like it is in the crucible. Outside of that combination, people will probably semi-frequently have their patience tested by players who either aren’t good enough or are just generally assholes when in the vicinity of a microphone… or often both at the same time. Bungie said they had reservations about matchmaking for this stuff and this is basically just them going “okay, well, you all think you want this, so we’re going to give it to you, but…”
In older raids it wasn’t as much of a problem. You only needed a couple people to know specific mechanics in VoG. Crota’s End was completely soloable so you could Sherpa 5 people through as long as they just stood somewhere and didn’t die. The recent revisions have made the older raids more demanding, though, and the more recent stuff like King’s Fall and especially Wrath are much higher on the “okay literally everybody needs to know what they’re doing at all times and if they don’t then we’re probably all dead” spectrum. Those raids were better for being that way, so it would be a shame if they got away from that trend.
Sorry, but this makes it sound even more like you’re apologising for other people’s bad behaviour. We ran Wrath yesterday, with 2 people in the group who had never even done a raid before (I was one of them) and we got through it just fine with only a few restarts on bosses. We made good time, too, and did a lot of the side easter-egg stuff.
It’s more than possible to take new players into that kind of experience and give them a good time without being an asshole about it.
I just don’t buy that it’s unreasonable to expect this stuff to be accessible to anyone. And I don’t like the implication that if people have a bad experience then that’s their fault for not being dedicated enough to meet the demands of the raids, rather than the clan’s fault for inviting a new player into the team and then getting impatient with them.
That’s cool. I don’t recall saying that it wasn’t. I’m also not naive enough to believe that that’s how things usually go, especially the closer you are to the content’s initial release, where fewer people have learned the encounters and where fewer people are optimally geared.
So, yea, I’m not “apologizing” for anything; I’m making an empirical observation on how LFG groups often turn out based on what I know. I’m not telling you to be an asshole, or claiming that I’m an asshole, or proposing that assholes are justified in being assholes. I’m telling you that assholes exist, and that said assholes probably aren’t going to magically go away. In fact, as mentioned by someone else above, there’s probably going to be even more of them now that there’s a system is in place that is going to throw everybody into the pool (even if that’s probably not much different than finding a group through Reddit or GAF, at this point).
Everybody picks things up at a different rate and everybody in the group is going to have their own threshold, typically based on what time they have to wake up for work the next morning. Based on my experience, some people’s personalities when learning new content can become surprisingly different between hour 1 of wiping to a mechanic because somebody else doesn’t understand it and hour 5 of wiping to a mechanic because somebody else doesn’t understand it, even if the rest of us remain saint-like throughout.
I think what you’re saying is fair, but I don’t think there aren’t ways to mitigate it. People have already suggested a few on this thread, so I don’t know how pointing out that a lot of assholes exist when the whole gist of what I was asking was ‘how do we mitigate the asshole problem’ is really adding much, that’s all. Is it your opinion that there’s no good way to mitigate this?
As somebody who has been playing large online multiplayer video games for the last 20 years… my opinion is that, at the very least, nobody else who has tried has been successful thus far. The best indicator of future performance is past performance. You could have some sort of flagging/performance review system similar to the reporting system that Destiny already has, where you can report someone for various things. But this would probably be too easy to misuse, and it currently never seems to result in anything anyways–and probably for good reason, since a report here and there with no real evidence behind it isn’t enough concrete information for Bungie to be throwing bans around.
League of Legends has gone to the most drastic lengths I’ve seen thus far when it comes to banning/suspending even questionable forms of “toxicity”–with the more obvious cases being based on empirical, text chat evidence–yet it’s still rampant there at seemingly every level of play.
The standard practice in most Destiny LFG groups seemed to be “have the emblem that proves that you’ve already done what we’re going to be trying to do” in order to get invited, and I expect a lot of the people who are looking for an extra body through the guided games service will continue to use that metric. Obviously this does very little for new players, nor does it do anything to prevent the people you do invite/are invited by from slinging racial epithets or generally being too stoned to avoid standing in the lava or whatever. Shit like that is never going to stop being a box of chocolates.
Groups could signal that they’re willing to try and teach/carry new players through; while I’m sure you’ll see some groups like that eventually, I doubt they’ll really start to show up until the content has already been in the wild for a while. There are streamers out there who will carry you to the Lighthouse if you’ve never been there before, and I’m sure there will be people who will carry you to the end of a raid. But in terms of maximizing that, or minimizing the alternative… I dunno, make more people read some Peter Singer? Again, box of chocolates, with some of the chocolates being filled with dirt.
But there is clearly a demand for the other sort of experience. So much so that there’s a term for it, ‘raid sherpa’ so I’d like to think that this system could serve both niches at the same time. It doesn’t seem IMPOSSIBLE.
My guess is if the clan descriptions don’t solve the problem of what sort of extra people are looking for, then eventually Bungie will add something like flags which help signify what sort of group you’re looking for/offering.
50% of people who hit the level cap never played a raid - so we’re not talking even about casual players here. We’re talking people who have played the game a LOT and probably would raid given the opportunity. That seems like a problem to solve.
You know what I’m hoping for completely aside from any game stuff? I still love the view from the Tower. Sometimes I stand there staring at it. I like how the colour palette changes over the course of the day/night cycle, and how the city lights up at night, in those blue/yellow tones that remind me of Melee Island of all things
So my hope is that after the tower goes, we are somehow treated to a view that’s as spectacular.
And a secondary hope is that as well as being able to look down on it, I’d like to be able to go there.
In the end, I did really love Destiny. I sank so much time into it.
- The world’s lore and grimoire cards to be embedded more fully into the game world. The amount of times I’m in that game waiting for something. Perfect opportunity to find a quiet place and read some grimoire cards. There should be little clues in there to lead to secrets within the game world.
- Looks like they’re making it easier for billy-no-mate players (like me) to take part in Raids. It would be awesome if they tested this functionality with the first game, just before 2 lands. Hopefully they could incorporate more Raid style mechanics into the campaign.
- More levels where cool stuff happens. Halo has long been stuck in the format of jeep level, tank level, night snipe mission, but I think Destiny could benefit from have more variance in gameplay throughout the campaign. Reasons to go back to levels. Unlike Halo, with Destiny I’d hardly go back to levels just to play it unless it was part of a challenge.
- More weird secrets in levels. Again Halo had all the skulls and modifiers, there should be secret loot and mini-challenges throughout the levels that demand them to be replayed, changing the outcome of the mission, providing new loot or specific resources.
- Spaceships? I just want to pilot my spaceship around the place. Even if it is in the loading screen.
- They’ve been pretty clear about ingame content in this game. 4 worlds, 1 raid etc I just hope there’s more to it. Everything just feels packaged.
Consider the forum clan! We expect to be running more or less weekly raids ideal for newcomers. I did my first one last weekend and it was a tremendous success.
Awesome! I just need to re-download it to my PS4. I imagine the waypointeers are a good bunch.