Do you care about Bioshock after Infinite?


#1

Or was Infinite just too much of a ball drop for you to really care (at least until you know a lot more about this new game)?

For me, there’s too much untapped potential for me to ever not care. That doesn’t mean I forgive Infinite, I’ll never do that. It just means that I’m very invested in aspects of what most people would agree makes Bioshock what it is. Specifically Plasmids/Vigors/whatever the new ones are called.


#2

As long as Ken Levine isn’t involved yes. BioShock one is not as smart as people think it is but 2 is great and it’s a cool basic idea for a series. Though Prey 2017 kinda ate the Shock games lunch so the new one has a lot to live up to


#3

If there’s one thing the new Wolfenstein games have taught me (other than “Stomping Nazis Is Fun”), it’s that you just need the right people to tap into previously untapped potential. No franchise is completely beyond redemption no matter how many duds it drops - the right people with the right resources, and no one will even remember Infinite existed at all.


#5

My thoughts exactly. I don’t think it’s impossible for me to interested in another Bioshock game, but I’d want to see it lean in to the immersive sim qualities much more. Also, I’d want a new setting, not real interested in returning to Rapture again.


#6

I know it’s yet another game that a lot of people have turned on in recent years but I still think the first Bioshock is one of my favorite games of all time, with Bioshock 2 and Bioshock Infinite both being pretty weak entries that I can’t really bring myself to care about (with the exception of the Minerva’s Den DLC for 2 which is excellent and maybe the series peak), but I don’t really know what I want from another, or what the unifying factor even is. Failed utopia? Shooting animals out of your hands? Class struggle? hiding in a corner and cowering while listening to a 2 minute audio log? I’m not sure.

The potential is there at this point to just go wild and bounce around to a million different universes and timelines and mix things up so I hope they just go crazy with the setting(s) and avoid going back to Rapture for the fourth time.


#7

bioshock games used to be a day one purch games and after infinite they are “wait until a shitload of reviews have come in, wait a bit longer, wait a bit longer again for a sale maybe, wait until the sale is almost over, maybe buy in the next sale, maybe just leave it” games


#8

The real problem with Bioshock as a franchise is that it’s always been Ken Levine trying to make Big Statements, without understanding that the shit he’s saying is basically Both Sides, non-contextual, ahistorical nonsense. Trying to run away from that truth is basically saying you want to make a Bioshock game that isn’t really Bioshock; you actually need writers with a Big Idea and the chops to pull it off – and then you need a mainstream audience that’s actually receptive to it. Neither of those things actually exists.

I guess what I’m saying is, I wish developers would stop trying to play at making games that pretend to say something without saying anything, or saying something really harmful. Basically, I wish they’d stop trying to make Bioshock.


#9

The Bioshock series is extremely overrated because we all want it to be more than it was/is, also nostalgia.

That being said, I hope it goes beyond that, but for that to happen they’d have to make something so new and different that it would be basically unrecognizable and while I support that, I know nobody else will.


#10

I don’t know if you’re giving the first game enough credit. Yes, looking back on it now, many of the themes and mechanics seem trite, but I think that historical context matters in examining a game. Bioshock did do a ton of interesting things like innovate how game story can be told through a game with things such as audio-logs, and refined many of the fiddly aspects of the immersive sim into a more streamlined, palatable game.


#11

I have 0 faith in this new Bioshock entry not going back to Rapture for a 4th time. I wouldn’t be surprised if 2K is making the devs go back to Rapture in some way. Because nostalgia is money, it’s poisonous to creativity, but it make money.

What’s worse than that though is that I’ve been watching YouTube videos of people talking about what they think they want from the new game, and the amount of people who think they want to go back to Rapture for a fourth time is nothing short of depressing.

Nostalgia is poison.


#12

Y’all make fun of Ken Levine for not being woke but he will show you when in Bioshock 4 you show up to an oppressive self-contained society and murder everyone…as a POC.


#13

I think Infinite was a competent game. I didn’t think it was a Bioshock game.

Bioshock was borderline horror, or started on that tone, and never really completely broke it. It was dark, moody. Everything felt lived in, most things felt died in. It was being the witness to the aftermath of an unchecked society, and it was awesome at that.

Infinite… wasn’t moody. It felt like state fair, (Built last week, here this week, gone next week.) and never dropped the tone. Not through the murder, the uprising. That tone just didn’t work for me. Not as a part of the series. What did they keep? The magic system, the name, the world of the ip, but nothing else.

I see a 15 foot tall golden statue of Lincoln with a minigun, and all I can think is that the game had lost the identity it built. Much in the same way, I imagine, ODST sits apart from the rest of the Halo series. Tons of people hated the game, because it really didn’t feel like the other games, turning it into a lot of people’s best or worst game in the series. (When people either love the new tone, and fragility, or wanted more Halo.)

So, I suspect I’d love another Bioshock game.
I suspect I’d have no interest at all in another gun-romp with plasmids through a generic mish-mash of themes in pretty standard if not dated combat, with the possible perk of sometimes using a hook to move around an arena in extremely predictable, designer built ways.


#14

I think characterizing people’s love for that first game and Rapture as a setting as coming from place of “poisonous” misguided nostalgia is dismissive at best, and a bit insulting at worst. Some people just liked it! It sure beat the weird centrist tinged theme park ride we took through Columbia. I’m pretty much always for trying something new and I think there’s a real chance to do that here, but there’s no need to dunk on people who want to see more of the only setting that worked for those games.

After Infinite got justifiably ripped apart in recent years, I think people took a look back at the first entry with a sort of disdain given Levine’s part in that too, and I can’t blame them I guess. But I think that game stumbles in less egregious ways, and is in context just a more important piece in gaming. Bioshock 2 has seen a rise in popularity as Infinite’s fell, and I think that is in part because of Levine’s lack of heavy involvement in it. 2 isn’t very good in my opinion, but I think for some it’s value comes from how it still managed to be competent and capture some of the essence of that series without someone with questionable politics at the helm. I think it proved there is something inherently interesting those games even when not driven by Levine’s direction.


#15

I think you hit the nail on the head. I feel much of the disdain for Bioshock 1 comes from the aftershock of Infinite and the (overall good imo) decline in reverence for the auteur theory.


#16

I played all three BioShock games, and I think Infinite is by far the best one - and this is a very low bar, because I really didn’t like the first two. All three games have the same ideological flaws, but I thought that Infinite at least had some fun gameplay, and there was at least some risk involved in getting killed by an enemy, unlike the first game, where you could continually run at a Big Daddy from a vita chamber with a wrench until it died.

However, not to date myself, but they all pale in comparison to System Shock. And as such, I can’t really be excited about a BioShock 4 when we’re supposed to be getting a System Shock 3, one designed by Warren Spector, no less.


#17

@Foxtrot @Glorgu

Loving something is one thing. Never wanting to move on from that something is completely different, And I will never not see being stuck in the past like that as toxic.


#18

System Shock doesn’t have consumable drug and soft drink based superpowers (as far as I know, never played it) and that’s basically what I love about Bioshock.


#19

I liked Bioshock because of all the weird horrific Atlas Shrugged steampunk seasteading but I’m not even sure how you would do that again. Like, could you make a game about Plato’s Republic while set in a city built in a cave system?


#20

Get ready for the hot take on…checks notes…Thomas More?


#21

Yeah, I don’t know that the space had much, if anything, to do with Rapture specifically.

I think Rapture worked on a number of levels in ways that helped build tension, evened out pacing, and made it more personal.

There weren’t open spaces. There just weren’t. No streets, no long ranged combat, no hiding around a corner, taking a shot at someone far enough away that they probably aren’t a threat, and taking cover again to reload.

That big daddy you hear? It’s behind protective glass, or you probably wish it was. Those splicers you hear? They’re already surrounding you. (Or they’re a part of the tutorial teaching you electrocuting the water they’re standing in, (ahem) can be a part of an environmental trap, and that combat was pretty rarely about shooting.)

(Honestly, this was a huge part of it for me I think. If you give me a semi-automatic rifle with a scope on it, and I’m at decent distance just shooting enemies, it starts being any one of hundreds of shooters.)

It also handled a lot of interesting meta narrative stuff about video games with the obey stuff, and I hated the note they landed on in infinite. The only answer is not to play is just such a bummer to land on, and I hated the way they got there. Going down a nihilistic rabbit hole with multiverse stuff felt extremely bland and hardly examined, while also feeling like it thought it was super clever, and it just didn’t work for me.