Episode 433 - Mi Father Siempre Me Dijo

The fall game season is in full swing! Gita is on today's pod to talk all things Remedy, but first! We talk about Far Cry 6 and the Ubisoft franchise fatigue so many of us have felt at one point or another. Patrick has been checking out Metroid Dread, a good game that is limited by the conventions that the Metroid franchise introduced to games as a whole. After the break, Gita has been diving back into the world of Alan Wake Remastered, and ended up taking a tour through many other Remedy games. Then there's the Cado Destiny Minute, where they discuss the new vaulting announcement and how Destiny 2 is one of the only MMOs that gets rid of content.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://play.acast.com/s/vicegamingsnewpodcast/episode433-mifathersiempremedijo
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I’m a fan of Austin FC and among the Hispanic fans I see them mixing Spanish and English with the same sentence all of the time. It might be a unique thing to Mexican-American communities in the US, but it’s definitely real. Austin FC is called the “verde and black” for their green and black striped shirts.

The gratuitous English and Spanish mixture is hilarious, and it reminds me a lot of when Japanese movies or anime have an “American” character. They drop English words as randomly as Latino characters drop Spanish ones. It’s a bit worse there since most of the time the actor has almost no knowledge of English and it’s obvious.

I was watching Ichi the Killer recently and this lady would say full sentences in Japanese, then full sentences in English, it’s so strange.

“The Destiny Content Vault is fine until it removes things I like” is a weird one - personally I had a better time with the base game (or “Red War”) and Warmind story missions than I did Forsaken. Swapping the start of Destiny 2 for the third or fourth go-round of Destiny 1’s (never completed!) opening does not seem like an upgrade, to me.

I’m of two minds on the Destiny 2 content vaulting, from an artistic perspective, and its value as a package deal I find it to be a net loss, archiving the Red War campaign was bad enough as it was a solid foundation to D2’s story and content, and barring the next two lackluster DLC’s the base campaign and forsaken was more than enough worth playing.

That said, if the current playerbase feels okay with the decision who am I to judge as someone who fell off as soon as it shifted into a strictly fleeting seasonal structure.
I’m playing through FFXIV and even with major reworkings and recent trimming of fluff content from the ARR campaign the main story campaigns are left largely intact all the way through from base ARR to the latest Shadowbringers. Other MMO’s have done it.

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I just wonder how Bungie expects to get new players when they can’t play the original story?

Ive always been interested in Destiny from afar and have considered trying it but now that the only way to get the plot is via a YouTube video forget it. You can’t just drop someone in a third of the way through the plot and tell them to go watch a movie first so that they can feel some kind of attachment and understanding of the plot.

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I don’t think Bungie cares about new players, despite what they said about the New Light project. They have their fans who are locked in to buying every new season and expansion, and that’s enough for them.

I figure Bungie’s got a pool of enfranchised players who are their primary pool of interest and they’re continuing to figure out how to best configure the water slide into the pool, so to speak. Particularly when content is always changing. It’s a hard problem, particularly in a game that’s over four years old at this point.

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My first time playing any Destiny was when D2 went free to play and from my experience people are WAY overestimating how the campaigns ease players into the story. After playing the first three campaigns (well, after looking up where they where and what order to play them because they don’t even tell you that) I was just as confused about the story at the end as I was in the beginning.

Hidden just to be extra careful

Nothing is set up other than some vague talk of darkness and light and the big egg being important. Then space Hulks show up and grab the egg which takes away our powers(?). King Hulk eats the power and becomes unstoppable, but then the egg immediately stops him. I don’t remember what the other campaigns were about. One was in space Egypt, I think?

I agree that vaulting story content sucks but even if Bungie kept it you would still need to look up everything because the entire game does this, not just the campaigns. I wasted so much time trying to figure out what to do myself and assuming that the game would tell me what I needed to know but it never does. My first real mission after the tutorial was to go kill x amount of a certain enemy faction that was never introduced. After searching for an hour I finally just looked it up and turns out they’re only found in these secret areas that don’t show up on the map.

It’s why I eventually dropped it. I’m not trying to rag too hard on Destiny because it’s really a fun game. The shooting feels good! The classes are sick! But I just couldn’t get invested in a game that doesn’t even set up who the bad guys are. Npc’s talk in your ear and ask “What are the Fallen doing here!?” I’ve never heard of them before so don’t ask me. Here’s a cool cutscene showing some scary looking robots that you’ll have to fight. Who are they? What do they want? No idea. If the game doesn’t care why should I?

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Atlas is on the right track. The key thing here isn’t that you need to look up a video to get the full story, it’s that you have to look up a guide/video for EVERYTHING in Destiny. An update will add a quest saying “Find 4 feathers in this big open world map” and your options are 1) spend hours and hours combing every inch for well hidden collectibles, or 2) look up a guide from a full time content creator who worked with their community to find them.

For Destiny, the metagame is the real game. The game is not about shooting aliens and robots, it’s about optimizing which activities you should do in what order and when. If you aren’t willing to look up resources outside of the game, then Destiny is not for you. The community was very unhappy when Bungie streamlined leveling and gear in the beginning of Destiny 2 because you could feasibly run out of checklists at some point, so they added more RNG to loot and made you have to re-level more frequently because it adds more grind, because that’s what people want. My Destiny 1 guild mates that still play Destiny 2 have explicitly said this is why they like it so much now and why they didn’t like it nearly as much near the beginning of D2.

Also, even with this new shift to more frequent in-game story updates, most of the story/lore is still in item descriptions, side stuff, endgame content, etc. The raid for Beyond Light had a lot of important context and story beats in it, including for non-endgame stuff that came out the next week. And that’s what people like about it: there’s always new story/lore to learn about and discuss online, which keeps the community active. Compare this to Nioh and Nioh 2, which are also pretty popular loot-based action games but have almost no online community because those games have very good in game tooltips and straightforward story, so people don’t need to make or look up guides, so there’s nothing to talk about.

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When the Waypoint crew started playing the Steam top hours played game I was dismayed to find Destiny 2 was my top game at 350 hours (with Tabletop Simulator at 250 and then a sharp decline into the sub 100s). Despite playing for this long I couldn’t give a very satisfying summary of the story.

I played for a grand total of three Seasons (Dawn, Hunt and Chosen). Whilst I could probably recite some beats that happened in these (e.g. Crow, Emperor Calus and Presage) there’s about a dozen seasons I have no reference point for. To me the content vaulting of story campaigns is a similar issue to the development of story in seasons - Bungie have little to no onboarding. When I started playing again prior to Season of the Hunt I did bite the bullet and watch that huge Byf lore video, because the game had no intent on helping me get up to speed.

I think this gameplay model has influenced the story decisions made - D2 reminds me a lot of watching wrestling as a kid, because the storyline is very slow moving and largely motivated by setting up interesting fights. Even though I don’t play any more I do tune in from time to time to hear whatever minor story progression is being made each season.

I think it’s pretty telling I could play the game for that long and still have such a tentative grasp on what’s happening!

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