Fans of Friends at the Table


I feel like Ephrim’s rage was less about Arell and his actions specifically, and more about his relationship with Samothes after he died, met Maelthes, and suddenly was filled with the Heat and the Dark. Plus Lem just disappeared, and he had a real bad day with all these patterns.

Oh, uh, I’m curious; is there a spoiler policy? Like, is there a specific time when something stops being a spoiler?


I think if it’s a major spoiler err on the side of caution throughout. Wouldn’t want to spoil something C/W related to someone who hasn’t listened yet.

The one thing I’d like to make sure everyone’s doing is denoting what they’re spoiling (I.E. Ep 28 of WiH or “Late Counterweight”) so people aren’t clicking blindly.

Late CW Spoiler:

ibex did nothing wrong

Scrolling through the thread people have been very good abt this (and I def had to edit a post I just made) but just want to re-iterate that I think that’s important.


Excuse me, you mean SamoThrees.


SamoThrees is my fav 2048 knock off


The late game gets super hard as you have to match Heat with Dark before you can start multiplying things and sometimes it just swallows your whole board


It’s only in the last year someone has actually beaten it by getting all three swords of destiny and formed the mecha of light!


Hello, I’d just like to state that it took me this long — to the very end of Season 3 — to realize that the rules engine, Powered by the Apocalypse, is also a phrase taken literally to describe the mythology, cosmology, and current events of Hieron and I’m so upset that all of this beautifully intricate lore is also, simultaneously, the biggest pun in the universe


this made me grit my teeth more than it ought to have. Like, I can dig the thread-relevant reference but claiming that Threes was a 2048 knockoff-

*deep breaths *



I was worried no one would notice!


I went through a Phase, absolutely, where I had to not be that 20-year-old ass in the subway lecturing anyone I saw playing 2048 about how Threes was better because it circumvents the “swipe down and left” design failure the knockoff so that-

I mean, not that it makes me twitch. still. anymore. or anything


Regarding Ephrim: Here’s my take. Be aware that I’m reading a lot into Andi’s character and motivations as a player and this could be off the mark, obviously; but in the sense of reading into Ephrim as a character within a fictional work, I stand by it.

So. Remember that Ephrim’s alignment is Chaotic and is to ‘Spread the dangerous idea that I am the only thing that can “stop the coming winter.”’ Ephrim has consistently placed faith in himself above most things, and in a sense his faith to Samothes was also a patting-his-own-back thing because the flame of Samothes also comes from within him, both narratively and systemically (the flame is affected by Constitution, i.e. his own body). Up until Ephrim met Samothes face-to-face, I’d believe it if you told me that Ephrim saw himself as an extension of Samothes’ own will and body; that he’d believe the Prince’s agency is Samothes’ word.

Thus: The idea that Arrell does such profane acts also in an attempt to “save the world” – to “stop the coming winter” – is not only unjust, but almost a personal affront to Ephrim’s identity. ‘It’s offensive to witness someone try to pursue my goals while preventing me from doing the same,’ so to speak. I don’t mean to say that Ephrim is so arrogant; but that he embodies the righteous flame, which burns intensely and single-mindedly, and that Ephrim indeed fully believes in this ultimately condescending construction. This intense nature of a righteous fire really does, in my mind, make it believable that Ephrim would not give Arrell’s alternate plan even a second of consideration. It is wrong and he is right.

That same idea, then, feeds directly into Ephrim’s fatal betrayal of Samothes. Be aware that this isn’t sudden – Ephrim did meet Samothes when the former died, and felt an intense reverence; but then Ephrim learned the story of Marielda and learned that the Samothes he worships doesn’t necessarily stand for the same things Ephrim has devoted himself to. And, as we saw, Samothes asked Ephrim to buy into an untrustworthy plan (‘destroy the ancient blade that you’ve devoted yourself to preserving’) just moments after Arrell practically asked Ephraim to do the same sort of thing. I think this is what justifies Ephraim exclaiming that he’s “tired of being someone’s tool.” His instinct is still a desire to be the only thing that can stop the coming winter, the only thing that can be relied upon to be just, and up until recently this was an extension of Samothes – but now Ephrim has internalized that Samothes’ will is no longer aligned with his will. Now Ephrim has plenty of reason to distance himself from Samothes and fall back on what he knows (the internal righteous flame). Now Ephrim has taken the opportunity to become his own King. And that is how you portray a character that is literally Chaotic Neutral fire in-the-flesh. Eh?

Anyway, what’s been fantastic this season is how both Ephrim’s and Hadrian’s character arcs end up reflecting very different approaches to faith. They’re both devoutly religious characters, but Ephrim is the fire and Hadrian is the rock, and I love how this show has remained consistent with that and rewarded everyone by following both paths to super interesting, super honest conclusions!


I think I’m probably being slow here, but in the episode description for WiH 29 who is writing the letter and who are they writing it to? I assume the writer is Arrell? Is it to his former pupil the illusionist (whose name I can’t remember)? Sunder? Samot?

Oh, and I agree that it seems like the death of Maelthes might have kicked off OG Samothes’ plan to fight the heat and the dark. Does that make it three different plans to fix things now - the godblood forest, ‘fixing’ the pattern and giving the stars souls? Have I forgotten anything?

While I’m asking questions, what’s going on with Alyosha being so angry? Is he still brainwashed by Maelthes?


Re: the Final Scene

Brainwashed or not I read some part of Alyosha’s anger/fury at the fact that his god is dead at his feet.

-random probably way off base thought: If the swords are containers and the sword that killed Maelthes was the sun does that mean the Son is now in the Sun?


Interesting - you’re probably right.

[spoiler]I’d interpreted Maelthes response to Hadrian asking about Alyosha as meaning that Alyosha had been found wanting in some way by Maelthes - my working assumption has been that Alyosha, like Hadrian, is essentially a follower of OG Samothes and not the Cult of the Dark Son and had therefore not bought into what Maelthes was selling him when they met, hence brainwashing.

I appreciate that my own personal views of the relative merits of Maelthes vs Samothes may be colouring my interpretation here. But then even if Alyosha lost some part of his faith on meeting Maelthes, presumably a high-ranking priest of “Samothes” would still be angry at seeing his god killed by another member of his creed, as you say.[/spoiler]

Man, the fact that all posts are now 90% spoilers is pretty funny. Maybe we should just a separate spoiler thread?


The pupil is Alyosha, I think. As far as I recall the letter even mentions Hadrian protecting him


Of course! You’re right, thanks. I’d forgotten about their history, even though Arrell mentions them being old friends within WiH 29 itself.


this tends to happen the day an Episode is released and it one of the reason i like that the thread has a built in Hide spoilers feature trying to maintain responding to everyone questions about spoilers and just other thoughts in separate threads would get to messy In my opinion


Latest episode:

[spoiler]THE WOOSH-CLINK IS SO GOOD. The narration, the music, and the way they’re perfectly edited together.
I got full-body chills on the bus.

For a moment I thought Ephrim would take over as Samothes when he grabbed that hammer. But then it went in an even better direction.

Something I’ve been wondering: Maelgwyn became Samothes after killing the original. Could the same happen with Samol, somehow?[/spoiler]


Edit: this is supposed to be a reply to @Hermie, though it’s not showing up as one for some reason.

[spoiler]I’m not sure it’d be the same thing, but it’s an interesting thought. The way the cosmology seems to work is that a new god is created due to an existing god having a lack of some kind - apart from Samol being created by “nothing” (the heat and dark?) flinching, though I can’t remember why. I think Maelgwyn becoming Maelthes is because he was on the verge of godhood at the point where he killed OG Samothes, realised what he’d done and his lack became his father, so he turned into him.

Having said that, the fact that the blood dripping from Ephrim’s golden sword was felt to be a fourth kind of matter/pattern by Fero (I originally typed Lem there!) and that Alyosha seems to be using Maelgwyn’s blood to forge a new world could be a new Samol/world being created/Alyosha turning into a new Samol?[/spoiler]


His ability to be infuriatingly both right and wrong about a lot of thing in different ways that other PCs and NPCs is such a good part of the show, I love him.