Hey, Waypoint Forum! Let's Talk About Wonder Woman


#1

Hey, y’all. Wonder Woman is coming out this weekend, and I figured we could talk about how good it is.

Yes, it is good. Really good. Really, really good.

Here’s a trailer in case y’all haven’t seen it yet. But, for real, go see it, it’s really good.

And if you have seen it and want to talk about it, please make sure to put spoilers in spoiler tags, and maybe mark those spoilers? Or I’ll write Gal Gadot and ask her to come to your house and yell at you a bunch.

Okay, here you go.

Without delving into spoilers, this movie hit a couple of disappointing (if predictable) potholes, but did everything that I wanted it to do and more. I thought it did a good job of telling a compelling, (relatively) down-to-earth drama while still being a lot of fun to watch. The 3rd act has some promising stuff, but overall it’s a narrative mess, and I’m honestly disappointed by how they managed to wrap it all together.

So, yeah. Go see it.

Spoilers for Wonder Woman ahoy. Like, a lot of them.

[details=Summary]I thought Gal Gadot was really good; she obviously struggled a bit here and there, but she did an excellent job of making Diana stand out against the backdrop of World War I by playing her as relentlessly hopeful and optimistic, even to the point of naivete. Having Chris Pine act as her more grounded foil was a really good decision as well, but I wish they’d decided to avoid the romance subplot altogether.

And I want more Amazons in Wonder Woman 2. More Connie Nielsen, more Robin Wright, just… more Amazons, please, because the entire first act was the best part of the movie, hands down.

I thought the smaller fight scenes worked really well, and I loved when they brought back the “Shield!” thing so Diana could knock down the sniper perch. But a bunch of the more intricate fight scenes clearly suffered from some over-CGI and bad cuts, which was lame. Though I think Diana charging the German trenches to save Veld might be one of my favorite action scenes in a superhero movie, hands down. That entire sequence was exceptionally well handled.

As far as the third act went, I feel like there were some good concepts rattling around in there, but the entire thing was just a mess. Ludendorff not actually being Ares didn’t really throw me, but the Sir Patrick twist did catch me off-guard a bit. I thought it was a good move to have Diana facing off against Ares with just the Lasso and the Bracers, since those are uniquely Wonder Woman style weapons, and her decision to spare Doctor Poison was perfect.

Oh, and Diana’s rejection of antipathy and nihilism in favor of hope and love? Perfect. Perfect. I needed that, and I’m glad they decided to have her arc conclude there. And Steve’s goodbye definitely had me tearing up a bit, especially when he handed her the watch.

“I can save the day. You can save the world.” Just… Chris Pine is great. Chris Pine is a great actor, and Wonder Woman wouldn’t have been the same with anybody else playing Steve Trevor.

Putting them end to end, though, there was a bunch of tonal dissonance, especially when Diana talks about overcoming hate with love, and then fries Ares with his own lightning. That was the most disappointing thing to me, and I wish they’d handled it differently. I think it would’ve been way more effective if Diana had beaten Ares, then refused to kill him, or stripped him of his powers and condemned him to live among humanity for the rest of his days.

Or, better yet; no Ares at all. Turns out it was Ludendorff and Doctor Poison the entire time, and that last sequence ends with Steve sacrificing himself to destroy the gas bomber, bringing the war to an end.

I don’t know. Like I said, I think the 3rd act had some promising stuff going on, but a lot of it got drowned out in the tonal mess that was created. It didn’t actively detract from my enjoyment of the movie, but it’s disappointing that such a great film had to stumble while crossing the finish line. But that’s a general flaw that most superhero movies seem to struggle from, so I can’t say that’s exclusively on Wonder Woman.

Either way, everybody working on this film did good, and DC finally put one on the board that I can get behind wholeheartedly. Now I just have to hope that audiences do their part and support the film enough that we get Wonder Woman 2.[/details]


#3

I saw this a couple of days ago (released earlier here) I don’t really have any complex thoughts about it, other than to say the final act may have ruined the entire film for me. That being said, I haven’t liked any of the avengers movies, or any of the individual superhero movies, the only superhero movie I’ve enjoyed has been Guardians of the Galaxy + sequel, so maybe the entire genre really isn’t for me.

It also just felt like there was something off about the CGI? I feel like it just stood out so much more, every fight sequence seemed to rely on it too much, and even the Amazons doing flips was CGI? The DC movies don’t seem to do the CGI stuff as well as Marvel.

Overall the movie was at least on par with the Marvel stuff (until the ending) and I hope we get to see a few more Wonder Woman movies in future.

Also for anyone interested in shadow puppets, there’s this wonder woman shadow puppet that’s pretty cool imo


#4

I think the discussion re: DCEU vs MCU and how they handle CGI is interesting, because I think, in some parts, the more fantastical, unrealistic look of the DCEU seems intentional to me? It kinda plays in to how the DC heroes are more icons and gods to their universe, vs. how Marvel’s heroes are more grounded. The DCEU is just a lot more stylized than the MCU, so the two franchises have a distinct visual difference to them, which is cool.
Whether or not you like the stylization is a whole 'nother matter, though I do like how they made Wonder Woman move, because it really did get across the idea that she’s kinda a god among men, and just as strong as Superman. That moment when she just straight up body checked a tank had people in my theater cheering, it was so great.


#5

To think, it took a woman to make a DC movie to not only work but hella good.


#6

I really enjoyed it! ^^ now mind you, I don’t have much to compare it to in terms of other DC movies. I’ve seen man of steel and I thought that was just okay. I thought that gal gadot was really charismatic as WW sometimes her acting felt a bit off, but she was enjoyable to watch. ^^ the last 30 minutes were a CGI fest. But other than that. I really liked it! Whoever decided to cast gadot as wonder woman, thank you so so much! :smiley:


#7

Thought it was a great summer superhero movie, myself

Gal Gadot was fantastic, and how amazing is it to have a woman from Israel as the star of such a blockbuster?

The plot of any superhero move is always a bit naff in my opinion, but I didn’t mind Wonder Woman’s too much. I thought they were handling the age old good vs. evil fight/debate pretty well…and then they turned it into a cheesy message. Which usually I’d find more than a bit boring, but maybe we need cheesy messages like that every once in a while

But those action sequences were great! And the humour was pretty spot on for a DC film

Can’t wait for the sequel


#8

Just watched it today. It was great, best DC movie since, The dark night series…
Intro was awesome world building and style, action was stunning, Third act was a mess.
Didn’t enjoy the romance between we and Steve.
Wanted the movie to pass the bechdel test, but it didn’t.
The side cast was memorable.
There were more jokes in this movie which was good.
The lasso really lit up the screen from the normal gloomy DC mood.


#9

I think it did pass the Bechdel, though, when they were on Paradise Island? I thought the Amazons all talked to each other about training and/or Diana? I mean, I do wish it had more ladies in it after they left the island.


#10

You are right it did. Wanted it more later movie.
Since the amazonians have been a culture without man for centuries. It would be arkward not to show those scenes.
A scene in the “man’s world” would have been better.

Is Diana a straight female god raised in a queer culture or just curious?


#11

I just saw it last night and I liked it a lot, I think it was mostly comparable with the best of the MCU, despite a shaky third act. Gadot was good, Pine was excellent, and the two had great chemistry, certainly the standout characterization for me. A lot of it reminded me of the best parts of the First Avenger, a movie I like more than most.

SPOILERS BELOW

[details=Summary]The thing that stood out to be the most was the reversal of roles between Diana and Steve. He had more agency than your typical female sidekick/love interest, but how often does a dude end up teaching the woman hero about the importance of love or whatever? A bit cheesy of a moral, but that reversal feels radical, and did throughout the entire movie.

Gadot was quite good - her sheer wonder at some common luxuries of the world (ice cream!), her complete rejection of social norms (not just gender!), and uncompromising morality all came off genuine, if, perhaps, a little … childish at times? There’s a whole conversation to be had about her transition from black and white naivete to a more mature idealism but I don’t quite think the movie pulled it off, the finale just couldn’t carry it IMO. Personally I think the movie would have turned out better if Ares just wasn’t a thing, or at least didn’t show up. I’m not sure why there needed to be anything supernatural behind the germans at all tbh.

I do want to highlight one specific scene that I thought worked really well. After Steve rounds up his crew and they head to the station to leave for the front, there’s this bit when they’re surrounded by soldiers shipping out. They’re cheering and singing and saying goodbye to their families; a real sense of esprit de corps and that ‘noble soldier’ thing going on … and then they see the troops coming back, bloody and broken. It’s a fantastic symbol for WW1 as a whole as well as Diana crashing into the reality of human life. I also loved the scene after she saves that Belgian town - the middle third of the movie was by far the strongest IMO. (I loved the fight choreography in the first act but the characterization felt a bit perfunctory to me)[/details]

P.S - IDK if the summary thing is working properly, it looks fine in the preview but I can’t get it to hide in the actual post, could a mod fix it if it’s screwed up? Maybe it’s just cause it’s my post. TIA!


#12

She’s bisexual in the comics, and recent runs have made it way more explicit that a lot of the amazons aren’t straight, which I think the movie could have made clearer. Let Diana kiss a girl DC you cowards. C’mon

That kinda gives me a segue into a chance to say what I’d like to see in a hypothetical Wonder Woman 2: I’d want it to be much gayer! Especially because Diana being bi is already canon to the comics. I’d also like to see more Amazons with prominent roles. People like Donna Troy, Nubia, or Artemis could be great additions to WW’s supporting cast, especially because they kinda left Etta Candy in the WW1 era.


#13

Really enjoyed it. Very well put together and avoids the recent Marvel smooth jazz style where no beat hits especially hard and you forget everything about the movie as soon as you leave the theater. Good music too.

At what point do they bring in the bdsm?


#14

No spoilers! Just my very general thoughts on the film!


I got back from this yesterday and thought it was alright, but I also felt dissapointed in the overall story. First off, for the positives, Gal Gadot was incredible Wonder Woman. I want her to kick my ass, she was that good. The whole beginning with the Amazons too, man, that was awesome! Any scene with the Amazons or Wonder Woman or both were fantastic and I loved them.

The rest of the movie though was kind of a mess. I honestly didn’t care about any of the characters other than Wonder Woman. All the other characters were painfully underwritten or one note. I didn’t get a sense of who they were as people, really, and I wasn’t invested in any of them making it out of the battle. Honestly, everything other than the Amazons and Wonder Woman herself was just serviceable. Sure, I enjoyed it overall, but I wish it was so much better.


#15

I really enjoyed it. It would’ve benefited from being a bit shorter but I tend to feel that way about most movies these days. Easy cuts would’ve been the whole segment of disguising her in England and almost all of Ares’ monologue once he reveals himself. Like, I fucking get it, humanity has the capacity for evil in their hearts without magical influence. You don’t need to spell that out through the entirety of a 15 minute fight.

I felt another misstep is the squad she runs with on the battlefield from the middle of the film onward should’ve had women or had women play the roles they had cast male actors in (personally thinking the pathfinder and the actor). Also the Amazons completely disappearing after the first act didn’t feel right. A quick scene to touch base at the end would have sufficed.

Issues aside, Wonder Woman breaking the line at No Man’s Land to save the village is one of my favorite scenes in any action movie, superhero or not, in the last few years. I also loved the shots at the end of the climatic battle of the soldiers hugging each other. Superhero films almost never grant the enemies a moment to show their humanity unless they’re telegraphing a blatant hero turn. The shot of Wonder Woman standing triumphant at sunrise while the soldiers celebrate being alive and free from their evil leadership because of her was especially powerful.


#16

As someone who doesn’t have a whole lot of reverence for the character (Wonder Woman falls in the category of super hero that I couldn’t appreciate all that much), I came out of the theater feeling enthusiastic, which I haven’t​ felt about a superhero movie since Winter Soldier came out.

For as long as the movie is, I thought it was smart in that it didn’t do the thing most superhero films have done over the past year or two, which is try to do too much. When Suicide Squad introduced Katana at the very last minute (It’s almost as if they’d forgotten her until the scene where the group departs for the city) and gave you all of fifteen seconds to understand her motivations, you knew it was going to be a bad film.

I thought Diana’s progression from child to teen to young woman was pretty good. That entire beach scene was just dope and when Diana gets up and crosses No Man’s Land, the music was perfect and there was a ‘heroic’ feel to it, like she made you want to jump out and go with her however dangerous it was.

The portrayal of World War I, which I was not expecting in a superhero movie, was actually good? When they leave for the front and the scene in the trenches did a good job at showing how shitty the circumstances were for everyone involved in that war.

The last takeaway I have is something I didn’t realize until I got home, but I went to six cinemas and all of their screenings of this movie were sold out. I could not find a regular cinema to watch this movie and ended up settling for the last ticket for the 3D/4Dx version (which is fine, but not the most pleasant way to experience that movie). This is just my part of the world, yes, but I wonder what crazy excuse execs have now that a lot of people are paying money to watch a superhero movie lead by a woman. Where’s the goddamn Black Widow movie, Marvel? We’ve been waiting for nearly ten years.

Love the movie, maybe my favorite one I’ve seen in a theater this year, and I came away actually liking Wonder Woman’s character, which I definitely was not expecting.