Criticism is 100% about interrogating stories and narratives. All stories are written by people in some fashion, even mythology. It didn’t spring fully formed from the head of a god.
“It’s only a story” neglects that media impacts ideas and people in the telling of them. Same with saying that it’s only another entry in AAA video games.
@dialacina
This article is an emotional gut punch. Thank you for sharing your story as it’s one that needs to be heard.
The series has a history of overindulging in misogyny, and I’m in no way a champion for the game. While I definitely see many of the points you make about he game, is some of it a bit unfair? In some ways, aren’t Freya and Kratos on the same parental curve, just on different ends?
Kratos has a crippling inability to connect with his son while Freya is ousted for being overprotective to a fault. Freya, at the end, is left with nothing but a dead son, but isn’t the death Kratos’ first family what drove him down a vengeful path that basically ended his world?
I understand that this game is DESPERATELY missing a voice that isn’t looking from the world from male perspective. I mean, Kratos was basically a Greek Maybe it’s spawning from the creators’ inability to write outside their realm and not so much from a perspective that there’s no place for moms?
I will say, if you got through with what I said and concluded “Your defending the developers, for shame on you” then we don’t see eye to eye on it at all.
Of course I might be standing up for the developers a bit, the piece paints a very strong message against them and I come down on the side of it not being a systematic rejection of women by the entire team. I paint it as potentially people without the correct world view perhaps not realizing the message they were putting out.
I er on the side that any criticism that seems to start from a premise of “I know what is right and am applying the one true view to how things should be.” as suspect. Especially when it draws a conclusion that essentially reads as “If you don’t absolutely agree with me and/or see the problems I do, in exactly the same manner or depth of importance I do, then the problem lies with you and it can’t possibly be that I am seeing things that are not there/un-intended/have any other possible reasoning beyond what I have defined them as”.
Yes, that can be the nature of criticism, and no I am not saying this piece goes to those lengths. I just heavily favor a middle of the road approach to a lot of issues. To me, this reads as one persons very well written critique of a game from their specific point of view, which in an echo chamber can become “Yah that’s right it can’t possibly be anything else! How dare anyone question the authors opinion or conclusion!”
As you said, you read that as me being ‘scared’ to have the wrong opinion. When to me that is a healthy way to be, The world isn’t black and white, and your absolutely right I am scared of coming down hard on one side or the other without trying to see things from the other perspective. My gut reaction to reading this was “Interesting but I wonder if a counter-point would shed light on it in a different manner”.
I dunno, when my simply saying “hey this might not be the only way to look at this issue” gets me accused of being afraid and daring to have the audacity to defend the mere idea that maybe the developers did not intend to be taken this way is called out as wrong, you don’t leave me with much room to argue.
I will say, I don’t disagree that interpretation of a work and authorial intent shouldn’t be considered separate/valid things. I do however think there is a difference between an author/artist intending to put across a certain message, and them not meaning too. To me, a lot of people who worked on this game might read this and go “Oh man, that wasn’t our intention, lets learn from this”. Not “Were trying to push this message from the start and are a active problem we should all be up in arms against.” Maybe so for some people. The video game industry isn’t full of Saints that’s for sure.
Still, I stand by my middle of the road view-point. Opinion is opinion, not fact. Doesn’t make it invalid, but it does mean I try and see both sides when I can.
This is a really bad way to go about this. You’re under the assumption that all that matters is authorial intent, but that’s never been how media works. I mean, Fahrenheit 541 was supposed to be about the dangers of the television age, but it’s widely seen as a story about the dangers of censorship because of the sort of imagery it used. It’s a two way street, and audience reaction is also valid, or possibly more so, in deciding what a work is seen as and will become in the larger consciousness.
This is also the cornerstone of basically all marginalized group criticism and Feminist schools of thought, looking from the outside and pointing out norms and reoccurring elements in works that don’t come from intent but subconscious and culturally taught factors. There is clearly a failure in the writing of the game that needs to be addressed, and critical writing is the best means to do that.
You’re doing what you accused the writer of the piece of doing, seeing your viewpoint as the absolute correct one and everyone else as wrong. You’re right that this school of thought is generally bad criticism, but all you’ve done in this context is project onto the piece. It’s difficult to have a discussion on these grounds because your point is made in bad faith, from a strictly negative perspective. On top of this, you’re treating a piece of critical writing as a direct message to the developers, like it’s a direct letter. That’s not how criticism works. It’s for the critic’s audience over the creators of the art discussed, and if they view the piece, then they become part of the audience and take away what they will from it. Nothing about this piece makes it slander or misrepresentation, as you imply. It’s an interpretation of the game, not an angry message against them.
You’re drawing a lot of decided upon conclusions here. Where does this echo chamber line come from? What echo chamber are you talking about? Many commenters on this forum engage with pieces written by staff and contributors with a critical eye themselves, nobody blindly accepts anything here. Is there so other place you’re talking about, and what does it have to do with this piece?
This is written very defensively. I’d understand if this was like one of my bitter replies from April (apologies for that past tone), but the post you’re responding to is mainly explaining the basic tenants of criticism and questioning your perspective. It’s not an attack.
There’s also plenty of articles you could read from different perspectives about this game, many on this site, to form your own base perspective. You’re under the assumption that the writer wants you to share the same opinion, but that’s not the aim of criticism. It’s simply their perspective, trying to persuade others to consider it when forming their own. In this case, they expressed a very personal series of real life experiences and contrasted their own truth on the topic of motherhood by comparing it against what happens within the game, questioning intended and unintended messages given by it. The piece never says “Believe me or you’re wrong.”
It’s hard to make out what your point is. You agree that authorial intent and audience reaction are both valid, but then follow this up by arguing a point that seems to contradict this. The reason people think you may be defending the developers is because there’s not a clear point in your posts, and your arguments seem built mainly to do just that.
Also, the phrase “opinion is opinion, not fact” is super loaded, especially in the given context. Nobody was arguing any of this was fact. Nobody was accusing the developers of purposefully sexist writing. It’s inclusion makes it feel like you’re trying to talk over minority viewpoints, especially because while you bring up a middle road perspective, you don’t really explain what the other perspective is.
Given the circuitous nature of the discussion at present, and the lack of new information on the topic at hand, we feel that this thread has run its course. Thanks to all for the valuable and illuminating conversation that took place.
