That only works if the character you romance does play out in the story. And in P5 it very little side segments and even those can be used for any character if the game allowed you to be gay or not.
I can definitely see that with Kaine, who’s deal makes me kinda sideeye, on account of the fact that “I dress very feminine to emphasize I’m a girl in addition to being intersex” could have been done in a different and much better way than having her walk around in lingerie.
I’m not sure how I feel about Automata yet, since I’ve only completed ending A. I feel like if they went with the idea that, as androids, they lack the autonomy to truly choose how they look, it could work as commentary, but I doubt that’s how it is going to work out.
But this feels more like it belongs in the thread about Horny Game Devs than this one.
Yeah there’s a better place for the discussion overall.
As for it’s handling of LGBTQ+ I do have a quick question regarding the first play through:
Does the Adam and Eve stuff come off as homophobic to you? It comes off as super homophobic to me but no one else has mentioned it like, at all and I’m wondering if I’m just reading into it. I highly doubt that I am, but I’m wondering what other people who have played it think
There are certain parts I found pretty suspect. The fact that they’re named Adam and Eve, but they’re put in a "brotherly"
relationship is one of them, but that aspect being constantly hammered at might be what made me not consider other things as closely. Care to elaborate on what you found homophobic in particular?
[spoiler]The way Adam caresses 9S in that one scene is what really stands out to me. Also just the character designs in and style of speech in general strike me as problematic though without the other stuff that wouldn’t bother me as much.
I also find the stuff with the female operators and their relationships somewhat homophobic in a condescending “oh women are so shallow” kind of way. But that’s both not my area of expertise and I suspect I wouldn’t think that as much without the sexism in the character designs so I’m more inclined to chalk that up to me reading into it.[/spoiler]
Roundabout is still one of my favorites, Beth and Georgio’s scenes are adorable as well as tender and caring.
[spoiler] The operators are just secretaries who talk about what Japan thinks robot secretaries might talk about in the post-apocalyptic space-future, so while I think that maybe their topic of conversation might be are pretty shallow, I don’t think the fact that they date each other is. It makes sense and I don’t really find it condecending at all.
Re: A&E, I feel like an argument could be made for the Villainous Gays/Depraved Bisexuals based on coding, but that’s really all I can say. They acted like typical villains to me, so their actions in that sense didn’t stand out. That they were coded gay and ended up evil and obsessed with unhealthy things says more to me about the homophobia in their characters than anything else. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]I feel like the game also treats they dating as rather shallow but again I may well just be reading that into it.
As for A&E I feel like saying that the characters are representative of their own homophobia dismisses the games agency in it how it presents them a little bit. Mostly I’m just annoyed that in all the articles about how great and smart the game is seemingly no one has written about any of it’s very real issues in favor of seemingly endless praise but I also haven’t read any of it the more spoiler ridden articles on the game[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Because they’re your comptrollers that are in space and nor the focus of the story, a lot of what they do is going to be narratively shallow because reading deeper into it isn’t going to advance the story. If 2B was able to have a more in-depth relationship with 6O, it might be different.
I’m not saying that they’re representative of their own homophobia so much as the fact that it’s possible they fall into a homophobic trope because that’s how they were written,
and that is a problem. I guess maybe check the more spoiler-y articles and see if anyone’s written anythjng about it? If not, maybe you’ve got a new topic to write about from a unique perspective. [/spoiler]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Georgio go by male pronouns in the game? I could have sworn that was the case and Georgio was a male character played by a female actor.
I want to jump in here and say that you’re 100% not a villain and I think you just have a different take on the situation and it’s just as valid as the rest of ours. I appreciate your feelings on this! The fact that you got something out of it is really a credit to the writing. I think for me, if we had more ambiguous or moving situations like that but also had more representation, I think Cassandra would bother me less.
PS: I think my stepmom would fall into “straight woman with non-femme qualities”, but I still reserve butch for queer women who present in that way for an intended effect.
Georgio is a non-binary character. they never use he or she so while you can view their relationship as straight and that’s totally cool, you can also view Georgio as a her.
A game that really upset me with its queer rep was Fallout 4. Now, I’m not gonna say the Fallout series has been particularly good with this but it is. Telling, to me, that Fallout New Vegas allowed you to explicitly define your characters sexuality and preferences through dialogue. And Bethesda took one look at that and decided “Well what if the player is forced into a straight marriage at the begining of the game?”
And of course, once you get into the game itself you can romance whoever you want because everyone is bi. But that now applies to YOU as well. The game has made it impossible to be homosexual, aromatic, asexual, or a number of other points on the sexuality spectrum you might want to be. There arent even any real options in the intro to express that, like, maybe the marriage was one of convenience. Or maybe you don’t like or care about your spouse. It’s always a happy 50s-style nuclear family with zero way to break from this fiction.
Meanwhile in Fallout New Vegas I can literally bond with a character over the fact that were both lesbians, or tell the lady who’s hitting on me, no thanks , I’m a gay man, or flirt with my own brain (though that is perhaps not pertinent to queer representation precisely)
If you’re interested in really stretching credibility, you could always RP assuming that, pre-apocalypse, you’re locked in a loveless marriage due to society’s expectations… but that feels like giving the developers a little more credit than they deserve.
Personally, what bothers me the most about this (and ME:A’s romance options) is that it immediately places all queer fans as second-banana outsiders. It’s easy enough to ignore when it’s not an option at all, because hey, I’m used to doing that with pretty much all media. When it’s an obvious afterthought like this, though, it’s somehow infinitely more frustrating to me.
I probably still would have been mad at Fallout 4 if it did that and there were no queer options but yeah. The fact that you can be queer, even if it’s less an intentional decision and more it’s just easier to code for that, makes it sting way more.
Thanks for clearing that up! Been a while since I played the game…
Not sure I can agree with the idea that any relationship with an n-b character could be considered ‘straight’…
Yeah that makes me feel uncomfortable as well I’ll be honest, saying you can view it one way or another. They’re non-binary, the point is they aren’t one or the other. It’s a separate thing entirely.
It really made me enjoy the main storyline of FO4 a lot less, to be honest. I was RPing as a lesbian and I kept forgetting I was supposed to have a husband??? When people mentioned him I was like “oh right, that husband”.
the A&E stuff comes off as super flamboyantly gay, absolutely–I don’t know if that inherently denotes homophobia, but I do feel that in this particular setting, the prevalence and indeed predominance of queer relationships and characters (reading Pascal as trans, Emil as gay, the sheer number of queer couples encountered or implied throughout the game, etc) really makes the Adam & Eve relationship… feel not out of place? I don’t know if the game goes out of its way to particularly tie their overwhelming gayness to any sort of villainy or condemnation. Well, they as characters are certianly condemned for their typical anime villain monologues, but… I don’t know.
Your sensitivity to underlying elements of homophobia is probably more valid than my shoulder-shrugging here, tbh, but… this is just my general read on the subject.