If they end up doing Metal Gear, may I suggest some useful informative viewing?
I was going to suggest similar but want them to do the 35 issues of the Tales of the Jedi comics from Dark Horse in them mid 90s that setup more of the lore along with KOTORs 1 and 2. You could get Rob and Danielle in on those too!
just came here to thank the crew for the The Bouncer shoutout. I played through that game several times, it was so much fun. it was the first time that I remember that I was playing a game, my dad walked through the room, stopped, and asked “what are you watching?” when I told him I was playing a game, he was shocked because he thought it looked so good that it was a movie or something. I have very fond memories of The Bouncer.
for next lore reasons I wanna pitch Halo, including all the books and such.
I know this is a dumb question, but what does “Lore Reasons” mean? I’ve been trying to figure out if it’s a pun since the first episode (not trying enough to actually, you know, listen to people talk about Kingdom Hearts). Or is it just, “Hey, why is that guy doing that thing?” “Lore reasons.” “Oh.”
My recommendation for the next Lore Reasons (even though I just admitted I didn’t listen to this one so I don’t know why you’d care about my recommendation): Ace Combat.
Yes, as far as I know, it’s basically that. I think they had a very similar conversation to this on a Waypoint Radio episode, and that’s where the name came from.
Thank you so much for sharing this lore journey with us! It’s been a blast to listen to
I’ve got some suggestions for future Lore Reasons, though apologies in advance for suggesting so many, and for re-suggesting games that other folks have already suggested:
- Assassin’s Creed
- Dragon Age
- Fire Emblem (this might be a lot?)
- Final Fantasy (not sure which one would be best tbh)
- Hollow Knight (maybe this would be more of a one-off, idk)
- Mega Man
- Metal Gear
- Sekiro (only if or when y’all feel comfortable talking spoilers)
- Titanfall/Apex Legends
These are some less-serious/goofier suggestions. But if it did happened, even just as a short and silly one-off, I would be delighted:
Animal Crossing, Kirby, Putt-Putt, and Spyro.
I think that Homestuck could be done and would work well. The Idea that it’s “too long” seems a bit silly to me, since the cut scenes from Kingdom Hearts 2 alone total 13 hours. If they broke up the episodes into the different Acts I don’t think it wold be outrageous. There’s also a Homestuck Summary Series, that covers the entire story in under 3 hours. If everyone watched that, they would understand frame that the Flash animations are built around. So If they wanted to watch “Just the Cut scenes” they could watch all the flash animations which only takes 4 hours in total. Spread across several episodes that’s WAY less than Kingdom hearts.
I feel like one major issue with that is that without someone familiar with reading it through already, it would lose a lot. Having at least one person who can helm the series and spot gaps or blatant misunderstandings in knowledge seems like it would be important. I don’t feel like Lore Reasons KH would have gone anywhere without anyone having played the games to relay the context missed by summaries. At the very least, the conversation would have been much more shallow for it. If someone on the team wants to make a project of reading it now that it’s over, or if they can bring on another guest for another half-dozen episode series (and I don’t know if that’s something that could be asked for free, at that length), it might be worth getting around to as a surprisingly wide-reaching comic about games, but it seems a bit much to tackle immediately off of the back of a series that spans so many games as Kingdom Hearts.
Pounding table .HACK .HACK .HACK!
[table pounding intensifies]
Oh nobody has said this yet but they could spend four years on Shin Megami Tensei lore. Maybe there’s a real distaste for that franchise around these parts thanks to some stupid Catherine decisions, but, I wanna know who is Law and who is Chaos on this podcast. (They better all be Chaos.)
That’s a good point. If there’s no one on the show who’s actually read Homestuck then the conversation could be stunted. I’m just not sure if I agree with how large of a task you make reading Homestuck seem compared to how much they’d get out of the series. Compared to what they just did with Kingdom Hearts, I imagine it’d be on a similar scope. Maybe I’m underestimating how hard it would be for them to do Homestuck, but I really do think it’d be an incredibly good fit for the series as well as a informative experience in understanding a piece of media whose influence will continue to have ripples for years to come.
My contention is that understanding Homestuck is not difficult if you just read it through start to finish, but whenever someone tries to “tell you about Homestuck” it gets difficult. Also, the meat of the story isn’t the plot, it’s the philosophy and characters, and that is best conveyed through the text and not summaries. Given the depth of nuance going on, I would personally balk at someone experiencing Homestuck through summaries alone. The journey of learning the symbolism and language of the story is so unique, like, at that point, your experience is so different from the authorial intent, what’s the point?
ETA: I’m gonna expound more. The “lore” of Homestuck is an entire language that the story takes its time to teach you, step by step by step, until you are so well versed in it that you hit your sort of ‘mid term exam’ with [S] Jade: Enter and can decipher “oh, i understand this complex situation and the reason this is important.” By the time you reach [S] Cascade, you have a PhD in this very unique collection of terms and symbols, and you are rewarded for the effort with a bombastic confluence of spectacle like being handed a diploma and given a milkshake all at once. Summaries would miss the entire point.
Which is why I vote Metal Gear.
I’ve never thought much about Homestuck in that way of teaching symbols and then testing the reader. That’s really cool and makes a lot of sense. I agree that Homestuck through summary misses a lot of stuff like, learning the symbols, the characters, the jokes. However, I feel as though the story itself is large enough to lend itself to many many different readings, some of which don’t require knowledge of the characters and symbols. You wouldn’t be missing “the entire point.” just a lot of the experience. But in the same light, the entire point of Kingdom Hearts is fighting heartless, traveling to different Disney Worlds, and playing a video game. Based on that Lore Reasons missed the entire point of Kingdom Hearts. But I still think the whole journey was interesting, and fulfilling. In my day to day I find myself interacting with Homestuck Lore through questions like “What happened to the limebloods?” and being pleasantly surprised that the lore has a good answer. I completely agree that my favorite parts of Homestuck would be missed in experiencing Homestuck through summary. I would argue however that anyone reading Homestuck for the first time post-2016 is missing a large part of what Homestuck is. All that being said, in a series looking at convoluted, colorful, fulfilling lore, I think the waypoint team would really enjoy Homestuck. I also think that I would really very much enjoy hearing the waypoint team talk about Karkat.
For that reason, I cast my vote in this non-election for Homestuck.
Respectfully disagree. They are missing what the fandom was, but not the text of the story, which is sharply benefited by having no hiatuses or pauses to break up the inertia of reading. I am a reader from 2016 and it’s very frustrating to keep hearing how much I don’t understand from sometimes the same people who mix up Dirk and the AR. It’s a different experience but not a lesser one.
ETA: All this said, if they do a Homestuck Lore Reasons, they have to read Detective Pony, it’s tremendous.
Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle series please!
[pounds table in unison with fellow dot hackers]
.hack was my kingdom hearts. I was so drawn into that series that I found myself browsing the Japanese internet looking for new avatar to download for use in the Japanese browser avatar chat,.hack//Chat. Which was really probably the first internet community I interacted with. Shout out to anyone that was there in that magical place.
So .hack// was a multimedia project centered around a series of game created by the game company CyberConnect2 of Asura’s Wrath, those good looking Naruto games, and getting kicked off of FFVII remake fame. The series set in then near future of 2010ish revolves around various groups of mmo players coming into contact with forum horror rumors made real. Usually losing someone or something in the process that they must unravel mystery through playing the mmo in hopes getting back what was lost. This series coming out in 2002 was way ahead of it’s time. One funny thing is that the fictional mmo of the series is called the World and some of the fictional dates and subscriber numbers landed basically spot on with WoW.
The series shares similarities with Kingdom Hearts in that is looks very daunting with it being spread out across light novels, anime, manga, and games but when you break it down it’s not really all that much. Much of them are pretty self contained story that add to the lore.
There is a core through line of the games and their accompanying anime. This being the anime .hack//sign and the games .hack//Infection/Mutation/Outbreak/Quarantine making the core of the original era. With the GU era being the anime .hack//roots and the games .hack//G.U.Rebirth/Reminisce/Redemption plus the new Reconnection from a recent HD remaster. The trick with all those game titles was that they were attempting to do the Mass Effect thing before Mass Effect where you carried through your save between game. Since they didn’t alter the gameplay between entries you literally just picked up your save where you left off. Making these more like an episodic game that happened to be released on disc.
Now here’s some of the problems you would have trying to tackle this series. For one I’m not quite sure that there is much summarizing material out there for this series out there on youtube. There is a great fan wiki but the series has basically been cold in the states for much of the more modern internet scene. Also a lot about these games would be lost only watching the cutscenes. You see these games have game with in a game conceit where where you load into these games onto a fake desktop where you have access to message boards as well as news of the goings on in the real fictional world. You also get to know your party members via exchanging email with them. You could find transcripts for the email most likely but the other stuff not so much. Which is a shame because that stuff is great. Some of my favorite characters in the GU games in particular are strictly from their forum posts.
That’s leads to the other problem you all will likely hate trying to play these games. The first series has aged very poorly and it also quite hard. It’s not that bad when you realize it not actually an action rpg you might think from being able to press x to attack in real time. When it is similar to DA1 where it is very much a game where you are meant to be constantly pausing the game to issue commands and cast skills and spells. The GU games are just incredibly mashy action rpg that will make the KH games look amazing in comparison but much more of an easy roadblock compared to the first games.
Bonus recommendation- I remember a lot of wild stuff happening in those Megaman:Battle Network games.
homestuck would prob be the best thing for it but one its kinda hard to get through cuz of the length but also cuz sometimes its just realllllyyyyy bad in between the good.
part of what makes it interesting though imo, hussie swings from being a really good writer to complete arrogant hack with to much irony poisoning wildy
I’m really sorry if I implied that the experience of reading Homestuck post-2016 is a lesser one, that was not my intention. I bet a lot of people will say “you don’t really understand Homestuck unless you lived it” or something and that’s both untrue and annoying as hell. I also agree that reading Homestuck as an archival work is a much better read to understand the story of Homestuck. Like, I guarantee you have a better understanding of the Homestuck plot than just about anyone who hasn’t read it since 2016. But I do think that, even beyond fandom, Homestuck as a living work is different from how it exists currently. A major example is user submitted commands. People (not including myself) who read Homestuck during the early acts when commands were taken from readers in the MSPA Forum, had a very unique experience that is just over now. The story interacts with its readers in the naming of characters. That’s a really cool and unique thing that is over. Upd8 culture as well. When Act 6 Act 6 Act 3 opens with Caliborn saying “WELCOME BACK.” That reads differently when there hasn’t been an update since this panel over a year before, versus reading it now and being able to click ====> immediately. Maybe I’m putting to much value into a difference that’s actually pretty meaningless. But part of me also thinks that there’s something that existed while Homestuck was still updating, that’s over now ( depending on what form the epilogue takes )
Yeeeeep I got that a lot. To this day, as someone active in the fandom and something of an expert on the Alphas, I still get it. So likewise I apologize for my defensiveness. It’s so frustrating.
Regardless, I think we’ve laid out the argument for/against Homestuck rather well and should let other people offer options. I’m really interested in a Sonic Lore Reasons, per previous suggestion. 8)