Lore Reasons' Season Finale Is Here With Your Letters, Questions, And More

I had no idea those games worlds were connected at all and I’ve never seen anyone talk about it.

I’d like to know more though!

I’ve been avoiding posting this thread until the argument for/against Homestuck was over. For the record, I’m against it as an entry into Lore Reasons for a wiiiiiiide variety of reasons (which many others have already articulated). I’d love to see some discourse about it from the Waypoint staff, but I just don’t think Lore Reasons is the avenue for it. Now, moving onto my actual recommendations.

I like the idea of a NieR lore reasons, but only if it includes the Drakengard series. If it’s just NieR Automata Spoilercast HD Remix, now featuring the musical stylings of Natalie Watson… well, that’s neat and all, but kind of a wasted opportunity. I think that the way in which Drakengard ties into NieR which then ties into Automata is just so fascinating from a LORE standpoint that it’s worth getting into.

As for some series that I’d be interested in a Lore Reasons for due in large part because I’m either a lapsed fan or someone that played some of the earlier games then completely fell off and have no idea where things are at now: Resident Evil and Assassin’s Creed. Both of which were already getting pretty firmly up their own asses on the lore standpoints when I bowed out and I can only imagine they went even further off the rails from there. Assassin’s Creed has the bonus of being a western franchise, so it avoids the problem of Lore Reasons just becoming overly focused on Japanese games for the reasons given by the crew already.

Metal Gear is Metal Gear. It’s the easy and obvious answer, thus the least interesting answer. Should they do it? Yes. But they already know that.

And as I was typing this out, I kept thinking of more Japanese game series that would make for great Lore Reasons, but I generally find that too easy of an answer. JRPGs alone could give you Lore Reasons for years to come. As such, I present to you one more western franchise that is both perfect for Lore Reasons due to its LORE and somewhat convoluted nature along with being particularly relevant to our current moment (much as KH was thanks to KH3’s looming release): Mortal Kombat. It has everything you want: a wide cast of characters, people dieing and coming back to life with different names, time travel, strong authorial intent, spin-offs that end up introducing pieces of lore that are actually core to the work. All that good stuff.

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While I’m a week late I had a suggestion I don’t know if anyone’s brought up: Halo. Weirdly enough I think it would be a good fit.

It is straightforward enough everyone has a basic grasp of the most obvious games and the perspective they broadcast (the games), there’s an expanded universe that goes into great detail as to the minor aspects of the games and broader contextual lore from the books (who the Covenant are, the Covenant Civil War, who John 117 is, who the Spartan IIIs are, etc), and the lore can allow the crew to analyze the series and its morals and if it is actually a morally complex and interesting series or if it’s actually just Starship Troopers without the farce. Plus, in the end, even if they get things wrong, it would make for good podcasting and there’s less danger of furious emails about getting things wrong compared to Metal Gear. Plus, it is one of the franchises that isn’t Japanese, and it isn’t so incredibly sprawling that it ends up taking years. And who knows, by the time they’re done, Halo 6 might be out.

Thought it was worth suggesting!

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LoK would also provide an excellent meta discussion about game development. The stories behind the development of each of the games in the franchise are kinda incredible

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Halo is a good fit for the same reason that everything Bungie does is a great choice (the Marathon Trilogy (+Pathways Into Darkness) has a gigantic fan page devoted just to understanding all the story hints and internal references in those games, so it shouldn’t surprise people that, with a bigger budget and actual tie-in novels and stuff to work with, their next project would be even more so.)

I don’t have much to add to this convo other than to echo that a Nier lore reasons needs to be a DrakenNeir lore reasons. I also don’t know if DrakenNeir would actually make for a good lore reasons, I just want to hear ya’ll talk about it.

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I sincerely don’t know if they’d want to deal with all of the uh, questionable stuff in drakengard. Especially since if memory serves a lot of it was stripped out of the english release of drakengard 1 so to get the full story it’s time to look up on a wiki what happens in the japanese version if it wasn’t confusing enough.

So we were talking about this on the Discord and I have a few thoughts after that discussion:

  • Legacy of Kain, the classic dark fantasy vampire series by Amy Hennig, pre-Naughty Dog, seconding what @mgm195 said above, that tries an altogether unique spin on vampire mythology. Not only does a lot of the best stuff happen in cutscenes (with the amazing Tony Jay, RIP, doing voice work) but at this point there’s tons of wikis and stuff written about it. It’s philosophical, there’s time travel and multiple worlds, and tons of apocrypha. The original Blood Omen and the Soul Reavers are some of the classic PSX/PS2 games. Plus, lore often isn’t forthright but suggested, leaving the player to figure out the implications.

  • MYST, the classic adventure game series about traveling between worlds and trying to fix what’s been broken or mistakes that have been made before, usually by forces trying to control them. Again, tons of lore, old and pretty well known, an emphasis on worldbuilding and letting the player read in between the lines.

  • Dreamfall/The Longest Journey, is now finally finished with the conclusion of Dreamfall chapters. A fusion of cyberpunk and urban fantasy, you play as characters in a world where Dreamers can travel between two parallel dimensions, and greedy corporations and evil elements put the worlds in jeopardy. Less easy to get explainers maybe but I’m sure the cutscenes are out there.

Also love the suggestion of Pathologic but I’m not sure how well it would work for Lore Reasons given that so much of it is experiential in nature rather than straight lore.

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A Lore Reasons episode focusing on the contradictory but intertwined beliefs of the different cultures/races of Tamriel would be awesome. Like you, I worry that a Lore Reasons for all of Elder Scrolls would be difficult, but there are a few areas of focus that would be fascinating.

It might make for a fairly short season, but what about the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series? There’s a decent amount to dig into from the first game with some extra information padded out from the prequel and sequel. Plus there’s the influence of the novel A Roadside Picnic and the Tarkovsky film. And finally comparisons to the Metro series, maybe?

I think a good candidate for a future Lore Reasons would be either pre-WoW WarCraft (WoW might be a bit too hard because the time investment required for an MMO sounds like too much work for the staff), or StarCraft. These games have decades of history, and Rob in particular would be quite familiar with it already. I’m particularly interested in how they handle the huge vastness between StarCraft’s entries in terms of both the timespan between them and the tonal shift between StarCraft 1 and 2.

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As someone who has invested far too much time into world of warcraft, I think the actual problem with this is A. afaik there is currently no way to purchase warcraft 3 on battle net, only pre-order the unreleased HD remaster and B. Blizzard’s approach to story telling has made a very significant portion pre-wow warcraft no longer considered canon.

It’s impossible to talk about warcraft without wow because they will retcon their prior material to fit whatever current story they need to tell to go along with what their game design team wants the theme of the expansion to be. They had to put out the “chronicles” books just to have anything approaching a definitive version of the story…and then the 3rd book came out and there was a retcon for something in the first book. The fact is the story is so unstable that by the time the next wow expansion comes out, the material in a lore reasons podcast could/would probably be outdated just because something they talked about would have inevitably changed.

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I see this thread has kinda petered out, but I want to throw my 2 cents in for Assassin’s Creed. When Austin brought it up as an option my mind was racing with possibilities.

I think the greatest similarity it has with KH is the number of offshoot games that slipped below most people’s radar, (admittedly my own as well) and could benefit from being pieced back together. Plus I’d really love to hear what the crew has to say about the Animus as a metanarrative device.

That’s it, I’m looking forward to whatever series deserves our love next.

So, Homestuck dropped a 200k word epilogue in celebration of its 10 year anniversary because of course they did.

I think there’s a lot of good arguments for and against covering Homestuck for Lore Reasons, the number one argument against it being the length. I would propose that the crew could cover a fixed amount of the comic and then either take a break or keep going depending on how they feel. I think they could make it up to Act 4 without much trouble. By that point they will have had a good taste of what makes Homestuck interesting.

Thoughts?

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The problem with only going to act 4 as like a trial, is that, while yes you get a lot of Homestuck, the real lore doesn’t come up until much later. I feel that if they did that they’d keep running into questions that have answers, but don’t get answered until much later. Like the first intermission doesn’t even matter until Act 5 Act 2, right?

I feel like the format is not a perfect fit for the show. I was very optimistic earlier in this thread, but I’m starting to think it won’t really work unless at least someone actually takes the time to read Homestuck, in full. Which is a lot. So maybe Homestuck isn’t the perfect choice for the next Lore reasons. But I do think it’d be a perfect project for a someone on the team to start working on now, or just read for fun, because Homestuck Lore is Deep, Vast, ugly but someone it all ties together perfectly, like unbelievably perfectly.

Also in regards to the 2 novels that just dropped as epilogues, it really think if the waypoint team can get There, they’ll be so into it. The epilogue is just musings on What makes a story canon, Is objective storytelling every possible, Does free will exist in the Homestuck canon, Who is your ultimate self (the sum of you across every time line and reality). All told through action and melodrama filled with politics, robots, and meta-narrative. And based on the epilogues, I don’t think Homestuck going to fade into obscurity anytime soon.

Final note: AUSTIN WALKER is a valid troll name and I’ll leave you with that.

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My God, it is.

I was under the impression that Austin had read some amount of Homestuck in the past, though I don’t have evidence to back that up.

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NVM. I just got to the end of the latest episode and Cado is explaining Homestuck to Austin.

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