Nothing Is Better Than When Shit-Talkers Lose


#1

Sometimes, it's nice to see the "good guys" win. Of course, it's more complicated than that, but at UFC 217, that was the prevailing message.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/ywb5n5/ufc-217-trash-talk-lose

#2

As someone who is a big Wrestling fan and used to be really into UFC until the direction the company started moving in kinda put me off, I can definitely relate to what you’re talking about, with regards to the trash talk. I don’t think trash talk is necessarily a bad thing, and considering the nature of MMA and how highly emotional one would be after a fight or leading up to one, I have a hard time seeing it disappear completely. I also think that the alternative of completely scrubbing the sport of it isn’t necessarily a good thing, because Athletes should be allowed to express themselves outside of the ring. It’s what the NBA has done right where the NFL went wrong in my opinion.

On the other hand I absolutely agree that it absolutely sucks when the bruhaha takes precedence over the actual sport. Connor McGregor might be one of the most naturally gifted and talented Mixed Martial Artists ever, but all the circus and bullshit around him and his matches continues to sour me on watching the product, especially with how it has impacted the title scene in TWO FRIGGIN’ DIVISIONS.


#3

No one is happier than me that Garbrandt got humbled. I didn’t see much of Jedreczyk’s trash talk outside of the staredowns, but I was really happy for Namajunas and she gave a beautiful victory speech. I don’t really watch any pre-fight coverage anymore because the antics are a turn off for me as well.

I will say in defense of Bisping, despite him having one of the loudest mouths in UFC during the run-up to a fight, he is always humble in defeat. He’s never run out after losing and refused to give a post-fight interview, he always congratulates his opponent, and he never makes excuses. He’s been at this a long time and I’m so happy that he got to touch the belt, even though everyone knew he wasn’t going to be able to hang on to it for long. The only reason he even got his hands on the belt in the first place is because he took the fight against Rockhold on short notice, and Rockhold underestimated him. He’s one of the hardest workers in the UFC, and probably my favorite fighter.


#4

Yea, this was definitely a special fight card in that there were 3 huge upsets (with spectacular finishes in all three), and all three former champions happened to be snarky loud-mouths.

But, as Danielle acknowledged, this kind of marketing is unfortunately some of the best ways to grab new fans and boost PPV sales. We see this partly in other divisions, as even when talks surround our favorite Demetrious “Mighty Mouse” Johnson as being one of the greatest of all time, we know that he doesn’t bring in that many buys (partly because of his size, partly because of the lack of controversy/fanfare in his pre-fight marketing). This is turning around for Mighty Mouse now, I think, but it’s the best example I can think of.

At the same time, I like to think, in my own head, that the fighters don’t always mean the things they say and there’s a kind of “silent agreement” between two big fighters that they’re doing it for the cameras. This card was a good example of that, as I am confident that both Bisping and even the abrasively arrogant Garbrant were able to show their class after the fight.

Also, as a fan of the sport, it’s not too hard to ignore the marketing, and let it attract more people to buy tickets, more people to start fighting, more competition, and thus more excitement for me.


#5

There’s been so much shit talking going on between TJ and Team Alpha Male that it’s hard to say either side is in the right at this point, imo. They have been slinging so much mud at each other over the years that I can’t even remember how it all started.


#6

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Joanna was nowhere near the shit-talker that Garbrandt and Bisping were in the lead-up, but she was still much more egregious than usual, which soured me somewhat (still love to watch her). I like Bisping, generally, for how gracious he seems to be with fans, and what an absolute hard worker he is. But man, does the shit talk ever turn me off.

It seems antithetical, to me, considering the kind of courage and respect you need to have to do this kind of training long-term, and to step into the octagon.

But you are absolutely right, he was gracious in defeat. Which says to me that the talking mess is very much an act…


#7

I think the most annoying part about the trash talk in UFC is how egregiously bad at it most of the fighters are. These aren’t WWE pros that are constantly practicing to be on the mic, and it shows. So often it sounds like two kids that are having a make believe fight, “I could knock you out with just one punch!” “Nuh uh, I’m too fast!” “Nuh uh, I’m faster!” “Well my dad could beat up your dad!” It’s all so cringey.

All the money and promotion is what’s ruined boxing as a spectator sport for the average household, and I’m a bit worried the same is happening to MMA. As pointed out earlier, McGregor’s ability to draw attention is completely drowning out the want for actual competition. Pair him up against another loudmouth garbage person like Nick Diaz or Mayweather Jr., and everybody makes way more money than if he rematches somebody more tight-lipped in a fight that actually means something like Jose Aldo or Dustin Poirer.


#8

Nice article. Trash talking and the theatrics is exactly why I stopped watching UFC back in the day. I started watching UFC early in its life cycle and even watched couple of seasons of The Ultimate Fighter. I loved the concept of that show, or at least, what I wanted the concept of that show to be. In my mind, martial artist are respectful, humble and disciplined. And there were people like that in the show, but more often than not, they ended up not winning - instead, trash-talking idiots seemed to be way more successful for whatever reason. It really soured me on the whole thing.

The aspects of martial arts that I’ve always liked are usually the ones attached to Asian martial arts, where discipline and respect are important. Bowing when entering the dojo, bowing to the picture of the master etc. Even the derivative martial arts have taken some of those lessons - BJJ is far more “westernized” martial art at this point, but every dojo I’ve visited has included some kind of rules regarding behavior and mindset that extend beyond learning how to roll on the ground and put people in locks. MMA is a test chamber for practicality of martial arts where all the fluff is being stripped away, but unfortunately they’ve also stripped away the good “mental” aspects of the martial arts as well, leaving behind posturing buffoons who’ve bought into the whole machismo thing.


#9

Rematch this weekend woo! Has the shit talk from Joanna been as bad this time around? I never watch anything except the actual fights anymore (and I usually miss those, too…) Planning on getting out of the house to watch this weekend, though!


#10

Can’t speak to Joanna, but Conor is currently wanted by nypd for throwing a dollie through the window of a fighter bus, because Khabib was sitting in it. Chiesa had multiple minor cuts on his face and it looked dicey for a while but he seems ready to fight, thankfully. Artem Lobov from Conors team was taken off the card, afterwards. Noone knows where Conor is, he wasn’t supposed to even be in the states but he flew in after Lobov and Khabib had a confrontation this week.

It’s time to get the fuck out of the Conor McGregor Business.


#11

Unfortunately Conor McGregor business is more profitable than 80% of the roster combined even if he only fights every 2 years so they may punish him but they aren’t letting him go.


#12

She has mostly just continued to say how bad the weight cut hurt her in the first fight. It might be true yet it is not a great look since it just really comes off as excuse Number 1 out of the Big Book of MMA excuses.

ALSO CONOR MCGREGOR CANCELLED 3 FIGHTS (Lobov out of Caceres fight as noted above, Chiesa out of Pettis fight due to the glass cutting his face, Borg out of Moreno fight due to glass particles in his eyes). OH MY GOD. THIS SPORT IS SO DUMB. Ahem .Sorry.


#13

That garbage is absolutely disgraceful. If the UFC had any dignity, they’d cut him. But dignity doesn’t make people rich…


#14

Yeah they won’t cut him because even if he doesnt fight again in two years, he will still make whatever promotion he fights for a few million and the UFC will want some of those millions… They will “punish” him by dragging him through the media, actually take his belt away, and Dana will swear to every possible deity that Conor will never fight again but they will let the actual punishment be whatever he gets from the law and when he deals with that, Dana will be up there with a big smile going “HE SERVED HIS TIME. NOW LETS GET BACK TO FIGHTING, YA GOOFS.” Prove me wrong, UFC. I will praise you till the heat death of the universe if you do.

Also Max Holloway is out of the damn card because he was declared medically uncleared to fight so its now Khabib vs Pettis. I like violence. I love fights. I dont know if I want to see the absolute massacre that a Khabib vs Pettis fight will be.