Okay, Fine, Let's Talk About Logan Paul (And Dr DisRespect)


#22

Related and important: saw this today and it was just a little too much, but sure enough, it is according to IMDB true.

You know, I could have sworn I had seen Logan Paul before I had heard of him from the Japan video controversy, but I could never place him.

TURNS OUT HE WAS THE FUCKING BAD GUY IN THE LAW AND ORDER GAMERGATE EPISODE

This season of Black Mirror sucks, you guys.


#23

I really appreciated the Waypoint folks talking about people “banging their heads against the wall” and trying to at least give us helmets.

I can say that in my experience, Waypoint did more than lessen the pain of what can sometimes feel like head-banging. When Waypoint started I was working at a challenging social work / nonprofit job. After ten years in the field, I loved aspects of what I did, but I was starting to feel some serious burnout. I was also coming out of a period where I was not finding games to be either welcoming or fulfilling.

Waypoint was there for me on my commute, giving me something fun and meaningful to engage with that was not my work. Their streams and videos gave me something to have on in the background and reflect on while I pushed through tedious paperwork. Waypoint also spoke to realities that I worked to improve every day: social justice and disability.

During that tough, transitional time, Waypoint didn’t just reduce the pain of a hard day. By talking about how games intersect with life, Waypoint brought a different vector to the work I did to support others that I needed to fulfill my responsibilities. I still look to Waypoint for the energy, critical mindset and compassion that helps remind me of the playful dimension of work that can sometimes get lost in the grind of nonprofit life.

So - thank you, everyone at Waypoint. I heard you wrestling in this episode with who your work reaches or doesn’t reach. I am happy to count myself among the people you have reached. Since Waypoint’s inception, the content you all make helps me to positively impact the lives of others who need support.


#24

I really wish more people would use Mixer more, every time I check it out it seems really cool. That multi user streaming feature for a channel seems awesome for things like PUBG or even more one v one games like Street Fighter.


#25

Someone (I forget who) asked on this episode what happened to shock entertainers like Logan Paul in the past, and if I’m not mistaken, it seems like they mostly fall off after they run out of ways to shock - especially when that’s the majority of their substance. I think Patrick brought up Marilyn Manson, but I see him more as an Andrew Dice Clay or Tom Green sort, whereas Manson had more than just shock to work with(or at least put effort into having something more than just shock), these other shock comedians had time in the sun and ended up somewhat forgotten after they ran out of ways to shock.

In regards to Paul, I wouldn’t be that surprised if the grind of making one vlog per day forces him to run out of ways to shock, thus sending him down the same route of relative irrelevance as the Tom Green types before him. I don’t have much at stake in the YouTube vlog scene, so I wouldn’t say this is wishful thinking on my part, it’s just something that’s happened before - take, for example, what happened to YouTuber MattHossZone (explained in this video by Quinton Reviews) who fell from averaging millions of views in each of his videos to ceasing his YouTube production entirely last year.

I think Logan Paul’s situation is different from those of the past because of the frequency at which his videos are made, but he’s not completely without precedent. We’ve seen people whose entire substance was shock value before, and it’s so hard to keep up.


#26

Yeah, I feel like shock jocks are the closest analogue to provocative Youtubers. When people talk about the sheer amount of content Youtubers put out, they forget that shock jocks did/do the same thing, because they were typically morning radio shows that ran for 3-4 hours. They are typically one trick ponies too; once their novelty fades out, there’s always someone else doing the same schtick to take their place.


#27

Wait hang on, I’m making an aside happen: Danielle mentioned running off to go be an EMT in Yosemite. I can vouch that this is a very good decision. My parents were ski instructors and other odd park jobs in Yosemite and the benefits are excellent: housing, food, and it is so remote. You want to avoid the the world? My parents skipped the majority of the 1980s by spending most of each year deep in the woods. Name a popular 80s movie. They didn’t see it cause the nearest town is Oakhurst (yeah, the place Sierra Entertainment started in) and that ain’t civilization.

Though I want to know about these remote areas. I can’t imagine they’d station you very far from the Village. What more do you need than the bar and crap cafeteria at Yosemite Lodge?

Go run off to Yosemite before the current administration destroys it!


#28

finding a viable way to escape into the forest is one of my dreams in life!


#29

Trying to picture Logan Paul’s version of Freddie Got Fingered is making my head spin.

The entire YouTube/steam cult of personality makes no sense to me so I only ever hear about these people when they fuck up. I’ve never felt older than when somebody is trying to tell me about a vlogger.


#30

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#31

“it’s not racist because it’s used in comedy” is such a weak argument. people make fun of things they hate all the time, and there’s tons of racist (and otherwise bigoted) comedy out there, doesn’t mean it’s okay if some people laugh at it.


#33


#34

It’s hard to explain why “comedy” isn’t a good excuse for these sort of jokes, and the best thing I can come up with isn’t that you won’t make someone laugh somewhere, but that it’s lazy, cheap comedy.

I think you often see streamers fall back on cheap schtick like accents and slurs, because they can’t give all of their attention to being funny, as they are usually also playing a game and trying to parse the chat feed. There’s some dynamics in there that vary with the choice of game, for example single-player vs. online multiplayer, that determine how little time a streamer has to work with, but I don’t think a lot of streamers put all that much thought into the craft of making jokes.


#35

I don’t think laziness is the primary reason those jokes get made or are bad. people make lazy jokes all the time, usually repeating memes or catchphrases - whatever the person stumbles into first when their brain is flipping through its notes when trying to look up “good joke” in the span of 0.2 seconds. it’s why “bee movie” was a punchline by itself on the internet for a good month. cheap schticks will exist forever and that by itself is fine.

I think the issue is not that people reach for the quick joke bag, but what they keep in that bag. I’d say there’s a lot of people out there who wouldn’t immediately go to “asian caricature” if they were pressed to make a joke about a laggy player in pubg. to me that just betrays a lack of care and thoughtfulness on the joker’s behalf at best, and genuine malice at worst.


#36

I don’t see it as “jokes” but as a manifest spite towards what he perceives to be a detrimental outsider to the game, founded entirely on a confirmation bias of Chinese players as being overly-aggressive cheaters and hackers.

It’s a nakedly nativist outlook dressed up with a shock-jock veneer, and it’s no surprise to me that many of the knee-jerk defenses I’ve seen of him include regurgitations of base assumptions people in that community have about Chinese players.


#37

Using comedy to make fun of racism and racists is shockingly difficult because I’m convinced every would be comedian is god awful at their chosen profession or they just want to say the N word without people being mean to them in response.

Mel Brooks might be the only comedian I’ve ever seen who handled race in comedy well (though he is far less successful whenever sex or gender comes up). Everyone else, not so much. I mean, Dave Chapelle had a meltdown because he came to the realization that he was just pushing racial stereotypes on people with his show and both left the show and the country. And he was right.

All these internet personalities are just shock comics, some good, many, many more bad. The worrying part is that a ton of them have audiences primarily made up of children - and that’s kind of horrifying.


#38

This is basically the dictionary definition of “lazy”, though, right?


#39

I have to disagree with this. There are plenty of comedians who speak on race capably. (Particularly POC comedians like Kumail Nanjiani, one of my favorites.) If you’re just talking about Youtube/Twitch folk, I can’t really speak to that, but you mention Mel Brooks, so I assume not. I’m a little confused by your argument, to be honest; all comedians are unable to speak effectively against racism because A) they’re bad or B) they’re secretly racist? That doesn’t seem like a fair assessment in my view.


#40

Just wanted to say I appreciate you folks, your efforts and your thoughtfulness.


#41

Let me further clarify.

White comedians (which happens to be most comedians who make it big on the web if you glance at a Youtube year end special for just a few seconds)


#42

Thanks for the clarification; fair point. Although I still don’t quite agree that every white comedian is bad or secretly racist, I can agree that plenty of white comedians try to tackle racism incapably.