So, uh, how 'bout that Doom Eternal preview?

The humor felt very off. It was jarring given how Doom 2016’s humor could be delightfully dry and had some really great bits on corporate culture.

I also forgot about it completely after that glory kill where he just punched a possessed’s head down into its torso.

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I think everyone has been pretty clear about why they don’t like the humor. Reasons include, but are not limited to:

  • jokes having an air of punching down
  • feels like you’re living an alt-right fascist power fantasy
  • no need for every game to make dumb political jokes

And so on. That’s not stopping most people from being interested either (I am not one of them, until they show more at least)

I don’t think disliking those jokes makes you entitiled either. There are 8 million games out nowadays, it’s fine to scritinize for things like these and move on to something your speed if it’s not something you’re into because of the jokes.

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What bothers me is the “Killing demons with chainsaws is awesome!” stance some of us have here, while at the same time calling Doom Eternal out for being ironic about the state of our society as it currently is. Humour should be allowed to transcend these things. We’re having a laugh at the violence, why can’t we also have an ironic laugh at debates in western society?

Also, thanks to whomever for flagging and hiding my above post. Makes for a good way to start a discussion about things.

You asked a question that is answered by reading the posts you’ve referenced, and then further questioned the character of those same people. Also not a good way to start a discussion.

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Perhaps my first post was a bit too colloquial, I can agree on that.

But I stand by my point that a game like Doom should be allowed to poke fun at everything and everyone. Its the essence of the aesthetic qualities of this game - irony. Attacking the game for making fun of western society is in no way better than how the original Doom games were attacked in the wake of school shootings in the 90s. In both cases, people forget to see its a game where both violence and views on society are meant to be ironic.

I disagree (@Emily does a great job articulating why, in this specific case), and I think you’ll find that notion won’t garner much support here. I see you just joined an hour ago, so you should read our rules to get a sense for what type of place this is.

(Edit: To be clear, “allowing” id or Bethesda to create a DOOM that pokes fun at “everything and everyone” is not in question here. People are expressing their distaste for it. No one here controls the publishing department at Bethesda.)

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Like, it might be funny if the idea that people immigrating to states like the US and Canada weren’t already being described as invading hordes set on destroying things. Making fun of “everything and everyone” shouldn’t mean “dog-whistling white supremacy”.

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The Archvile reveal was great. With that I guess they ran though every Doom I/II enemy rosters. Not sure why that makes me feel sad - it’s almost like there’s no more reveals to look forward to.

“Equal-opportunity jokes” are hardly ever “equal-opportunity.” Punching up has no effect on the power or privilege of the powerful and privileged - it challenges established paradigms and in a lot of cases can be a way of coping or healing for the disenfranchised.

Punching down serves no purpose but to reinforce toxic attitudes towards marginalized groups, and unlike punching up, it bolsters the incredibly harmful idea that those groups are worthy of ridicule, their concerns trivial.

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This is actually what made it funny to me, like of course a corporately funded LITERAL DEMONIC INVASION FROM HELL gets a warmer company line treatment than any actual human would. It feels like good timing and works with how the holograms worked in DOOM 2016, “correct” in a mechanical, oblivious way because they’re sugar coated, out of touch, written by committee propaganda. I parsed as more of a jab at how we live in a world so stupid that the the term “alt right” exists for people who think all non-white non-Christian non-cis people should be killed.

At the same time the editing in the trailer makes both comedy relief attempts (thanks to my insight we can now refer to these moments as “holohumor” in the future) feel two dimensional, pretty bad for a hologram.

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Yeahhh, same. Admittedly I still think the gameplay looks really cool… but depending on how far they take this, this might be my version of The Division in terms of a game that I must not think too hard about to enjoy.

the only punching down that’s permissible in this game is punching demons’ heads down into their torsos

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There’s comedy in the demo that works beautifully. I loved the exaggerated expressions of the demons as they’re about to be obliterated and that guy getting lightly tugged by his keycard really helps express the Doom Slayer’s single-minded but ultimately lovable personality.

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Good point, I mean since most of the stuff we’re worried about seems to be coming mostly from the hologram, I suppose that also means a lot of the stuff we’re worried about can be easily changed before release.

I think that all the jokes are just meant to be “haha look how shitty it is that the corporation is trying to humanize the invaders”, but landed in this horrible, ableist way, and kinda xenophobic way. I really want to believe those jokes were written to poke fun at corporate culture, and not at our political climate, though the chances of that being the case are slim. I’m really disappointed by that aspect of the game. I didn’t get any alt right power fantasy vibes from any of it, although I see where y’all may have got them, and I’m extremely excited for the game. Doom 2016 would’ve been my favorite of that year if not for Dark Souls 3, and my favorite of this entire gen if not, again, for DS3, and Eternal seems to be everything I ever wanted out of a Doom game. I really hope they don’t fuck it up with shitty humor beyond a couple throw away lines.

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It looks so good, way better than I expected. I would have been happy with just a follow up to 2016 with new levels and new demons but man they are going all in on this one and I think it will execute it well

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I don’t think I’ve watched a gameplay demo so many times. Can’t wait for Doom: Eternal, perhaps it does look like more of the same. But just… more of it. More fast paced maneoverability, more demons, more gore, more nods to the old games (plasma cannon!) and more scope in the scale and aesthetics of the game.

Not sure what I felt about the whole ‘Doom universe’ thing they teased, whilst I did enjoy all the lore of the first game as an extra (that I actively did go out of my way to discover) I feel this can only lead to the game making more serious attemps into storytelling, when the first game was this beautiful self contained thing whose very existence seemed to lampoon all other shooters whilst refreshing the entire FPS genre. Feels like it’s only a matter of time before the Doom slayer becomes this godlike entity that all of humanity look up to. Worked for Gordon Freeman!

As for the humour, loved the people on Phobos reacting to the Doom Slayer. I hope the game has more of that. The first game had some great moments, like when Hayden tells you to be careful in the MacGuffin and the Doom Slayer just destroys it. Being set on earth with more human contact, I hope this means they can do more sly parodies of other games, seems like a golden community to put the Doom Slayer in a typical COD invasion story and see just how he deals with that. After Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, it seems like Id may lean more into those crazier moments. I hope they do.

Did groan, as others have done, a little when I heard the PC joke about demons. Within the context of 2018, it does seem a little bit of a jab. However, I guess within the context of the story it maybe works. I seem to remember the background lore from the first game, had the corporate structure insisting people sacrifice themselves to a Titan, should they be lucky enough to encounter one whilst exploring Hell. The whole thing of humanity trying to use Hell as a source of power, therefore accept Hell and it’s inhabitants as ‘friends’ allowed the Doom Slayer to prevail as a character as someone who is revived into a world he is so diametrically opposed to - a bit like BJ in Wolfenstein: New Order waking up to find the Nazis have taken over. I’m not willing to believe that the Doom marine is punching downwards, he’s obviously pro humanity - anti hell. I don’t think Id would echo the ‘both sides’ approach - demons need killing. Doom guy is your man.

As for the other bits, like the invasions. I’m sure it’ll be fine, not a massive draw for me. Doom 2016 seemed to be a game that offered so much around the core single player - the MP and the level editor, but the core was always the thing I was most interested in. Seems like a nice to have. If you really want to kill the Doom Slayer. But why sacrifice all the movement of the Doom Slayer for a potentially slower, mechanically shallower monster?

I’m guessing the game won’t be coming out for some time. At least a year maybe? After Wolfenstein and the first Doom, It’s probably the game I am most looking forward. I hope Rage 2 is as good. Still not completely convinced, but I have faith in Avalanche (RENEGADE OPS) making a better Mad Max game.

Still hoping Id will at some point reboot single player Quake. I’m not sure if it would just be Doom with nailguns though…

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I was fine with Quake IV and it had some cool things happening in it but it was basically A Call Of Duty Game in a lot of ways so it was pretty boring to me personally. It’d be great to get something like Quake I today though.

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I can see what they were probably going for here with the jokes involved about demons and all that, but that is some awful, awful delivery.

I’m not saying it’s absolutely impossible to make the case where a sinister group is using the language of the actually marginalized and oppressed in order to try and push through something obviously terrible, but that is going to be the narrowest fucking needle to thread and DOOM isn’t the thing that’s going to pull it off.

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I don’t think it’s a huge stretch as this is something people who run huge corporations (i.e., sinister groups) do all the time in real life. :slight_smile:

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