Those two plus the library. Man, when I set foot in that library again…
To be fair, it kinda kills everyone
Just curious, did you try it on harder difficulties? Just because that changes the way you approach combat and in particular memory allocation so differently. Not that you should need to in a game, but self-set restrictions can really help this game’s combat shine if you want challenge
So I’ve been trying to move on from this game for the last two weeks, but I just can’t. I keep thinking about it, thinking of small things I didn’t think of before, reminiscing over locations and music, thinking hard about side quests, realising the double or triple meanings of pieces of dialogue… it’s a weird comparison, but Lupe Faisco is one of my favourite MC’s, and his albums are the only other media I’ve engaged with that compare to the way this game works on multiple levels. Man, I just want to write deep dive articles on all aspects of this game… hell, you could write an entire book.
I started Yooka-Laylee, but couldn’t stick with it… started Horizon, had to put it down… have ended up starting to play through the original Nier, with Drakengard 1 & 3 in the mail. Think I’m down a rabbit hole now, and I don’t know if I want to come out.
it doesn’t though? [spoiler]adam, eve, and (depending on your choices) 9s all survive on the ark. pascal (again, depending on your choices) lives. thats a 100% survival rate for notable major male characters. i’m not saying that nothing bad happens to them but they don’t just die.
meanwhile 2b, a2, commander, 6o, 21o, devola, popular, etc. all die (or are heavily implied to). the only notable female characters who survive the game are jackass and anemone.
numbers aside, most of these women sacrifice themselves for 9s’s sake in one form or another. 2b is straight up fridged, and the game was promoted with her as the protagonist!
it’s really rare to see a game with this many women in it at all, and i found it disappointing that it backed away from their inferiority, stories, and lives to focus on 9s, who i find tiresome. [/spoiler]
Wait, am I missing something?
When do Adam and Eve survive?
Also on a true end run, A2, 9S, and 2B all survive. That’s not to say your points aren’t valid, but it definitely feels more part of the despair of the narrative universe than an example of Stuffed Into The Fridge/Bury Your Gays.
However I may be wrong on this as despite getting Ending E I still feel like enough went over my head to warrant a second playthrough once I finish Persona 5.
[spoiler]adam, eve, and 9s are all on the ark launched in ending d. i’m not talking about the ending e epilogue here, as i don’t view it as substantial.
and it’s fine if y’all disagree with me but i really can’t read the game any other way. it repeatedly sacrifices it’s women, narratively and literally, in the service of making the player/9s feel emotions. [/spoiler]
Man, Nier Automata is such a great, flawed game. I love its ideas. I love how it pulls off most of them. To me, its’s honestly the equivalent of finishing a long-ass novel like Infinite Jest or Gravity’s Rainbow and then taking weeks, months, maybe years to sort it all out and absorb it. I love the hell out of that game. In my top 3 for this year for sure.
Gravity Rush 2 is what I went into right afterwards because the world & characters are for the most part a lot more happy go lucky (except when it’s not) which helped even out my emotions and despite some of the gameplays shortcomings it’s unique enough where it kept me going.
i’m mostly 2B/6O too. it feels like 6O is the only one that brings a smile to her face. i honestly had to stop for a bit when the yorha base got infected and 6O thanks you for the flowers over the intercom. the only other points that made me stop and kind of cry was during emil’s super secret boss fight and when you find out about devola and popola’s backstory.
i also ship A2 with Anemone just cuz they have a shared tragic past and i like to imagine the interactions between jackass and her girlfriend as mentioned in one sidequest.
btw, like, i like 9S!!! but i also feel the same frustration as mentioned in this thread with him having more of a focus in the game than 2B, because i like her even more!!! even A2, it feels, takes a backseat to 9S. 2B’s pain, in having to deal with killing 9S over and over again, was way more interesting to me than 9S’. i wish that was explored more.
I really liked 9S! [spoiler]I think he was a really good protagonist/antagonist, his breakdown over Route C after being such a caring person by the end of Route B is really impactful to me personally.
Also this may be a bit grim, but I really loved the animation of 9S stumbling around after getting stabbed in Ending D. Those little things help the game a lot.[/spoiler]
I think 9S’s development is in line with Yoko Taros idea that centers the original concept of Nier that “Everyone is capable of violence & horrendous acts as long as they think what they are fighting for is right.”. 9S’ fate also parallels that of Eve who also goes mad with revenge over the loss of the person they love most. All kind of comes full circle in the end.
If you don’t view Ending E as substantial, well…sorry? Given the history of the Drakengard/Nier series, the final endings tend to be the ones that ultimately have the most significant meaning in the long run. Nier picks up from Drakengard Ending E. Nier Automata follows Nier Ending D. Drakengard 3 Ending D prequels Drakengard. If there is a game of some sort that follows Automata directed by Yoko Taro, it will, more likely than not, follow Ending E, meaning 2B, 9S, and A2 all live, with their respective memories intact. What that could lead into is anybody’s guess (A potential Nier 3 could be set sometime in the year 25833 and follow another stage play, for all we know).
As dire as the game gets, death isn’t the end for these characters, even before Endings C and D are reached. 2B isn’t just killed off for the sake of fridging. Android lives aren’t bound by the same nature of mortality that we are. 9S dies multiple times in the game and hundreds of times before we’re introduced to them. 2B and 9S both “die” at the end of the prologue. And yet no matter how many times 2B kills 9S, it hurts her every time. Which is may be part of why she seems so at peace when A2 kills her. She doesn’t have to kill 9S anymore. And yet, she entrusts A2 with her memories, and so in a way continues to live on (and in a final, bitter irony, ends up killing 9S in Ending D).
Alright, I got some thoughts here:
[spoiler]- I read the game’s last ending, E, as the “true” or “final” ending here. In that the nature of everything we played through is cyclical, and is repeated continuously through the actions of the player. The final ending brings about a potential for change, or for another player to break that cycle, reviving 9S, 2B & A2 for someone else to make different choices for a (hopefully) better outcome. In that way the characters didn’t “die” as such, not in the “truest” of endings.
- Adam fairly definitively died in his fight with 2B, as he cut himself off from the network in an attempt to experience the only one thing he couldn’t understand.
- I kind of interpreted Eve as being at least non-binary, if not female? Eve calls Adam brother, but from what I can recall (and I might be totally off here) that Adam never refers to Eve as anything gender specific. The only other character in the game that identifies differently to what you “expect”, Pascal, is named so after the philosopher Blaise Pascal, a male. Eve is pretty clearly named from the Bible, in which Eve is obviously a girl. I read Eve & Adam’s creation as a rebirth, as the start of a new cycle of life, with them 2 being “mother and father” of that ideal. Sure Eve has a male physique and voice, but that means bugger all in this game.
- My interpretation of the ending you’re talking about, with the ark and all the boys, was a little different. 9S seemed to finally succumb to the logic virus in his fight with A2, so from that he was pretty much doomed. I read the text part with Eve using the rocket to launch away from the planet / asking 9S to go with them as entirely played out in 9S’ head, some kind of rationale for himself to accept prior to his final death. Was Adam there at all? I can’t recall, but he must have been if you’re saying that - in that particular case, as he definitely died as mentioned before, that makes it further proof that it’s in 9S’ head, not actually happening (to me anyway.)
- Pascal, I would argue, is truly dead no matter what option you go with. If you kill him he’s dead. If you wipe his memory he is no longer Pascal at all (to the point of being the equivalent of irreversibly brain damaged, shown by selling machine parts of the children, with his name being “Pascal” only because you remember him as such, not because he identifies with the name.) (also, there’s the whole argument made through the game about sense of self and memories and whether you are really “you” without them, but that’s a whole other tangent.) If you walk away, I read that as Pascal commits suicide, as he’s not seen again (including in that final cutscene, which he’s in if you wipe him.) No matter what option you choose, you get the trophy signifying Pascal’s death.
- Apart from the fact that everyone in the game is mechanical in nature, none of them with reproductive parts, signifying that “gender” is an irrelevant construct (again, a whole other discussion topic, but won’t go down that road here yet at least) I kind of read the game as very pro women. Nearly every station of importance as far as leaders, command etc goes, you find ladies. Commander, Anemone, the red twins. The characters that are male are generally either oblivious where others are knowledgeable (9S is ignorant to so many truths, yet 2B(E) knows much more than she lets on, A2 figures it out on her own prior to the events of the game, Anemone is the one who leads the resistance by adapting to machine’s being sentient, Jackass is the one observing everything as a whole (her final report at the end)). All the boys give in to their own selfish desires (9S grief, Adam curiosity, Eve (if you want to call male) rage. All the women are smarter about everything, think about the good of everyone else, do the Right Thing (2B passes on what’s important to A2 when she knew death was inevitable, A2 despite being a lone rogue still “saves the world”, Commander follows her duty to the end).
- I totally get your interpretation of 9S, but I took it to be he has almost a childlike/optimistic outlook on the world that is shattered beyond repair through what happens to his very meaning for existence. He is killed and reset so many times that he doesn’t have the hardness of the other characters, so he is “innocent” in the beginning. I guess that’s why o found him likable enough - he was more of a child in my eyes than a man, if that makes sense.[/spoiler]
Just want to say I hope this doesn’t come across as argumentative or shooting you down or anything, I just love this game so much and want to talk to people about it, debating over thoughts and meanings and all that stuff. So thank you so much for commenting back!
What’s so good about this game is it’s openness to interpretation. While some creators want to craft something for the audience to feel a certain way or think a certain thought, Yoko Taro has said in interviews he wants players to take what they want from the games he makes, rather than tell them how to be affected. My interpretations are one of many, and I’m so open to discussing and adjusting them!
When I do end up coming up for air on this series, going to have to remember this really need something totally different and hopeful afterward haha. Still want to play the first one as well. Man that art style is cool
I wish you luck with Drakengard 1. That game is a real uh…product of its time I guess.
Ha yeah I figure it will be quite difficult, but I’ve fallen for Automata so much that I feel I just need to experience it on my own instead of watching YT. A few hours into Nier I totally understand the complaints in gameplay, but I’ve just turned it to easy and and it’s fine. I’m sure it’ll be even worse with Drakengard, but so far I’m totally down for all the story xD
So many of this games’ animations are so on point, grim or no! It’s such a small thing, but the way the half-sphere heads of the little/clown robots and the way they kind of twitch look around is just insanely cute.
Hate to be that guy but according to translators the strategy guide says that androids can develop reproductive organs. Also Yoko Taro has stated in the past that all endings in his games are true as they are alternate timelines. This is the reasoning that allows NieR to be a sequel to Drakengard as the ending it spun off from was largly considered a joke ending. This also allows for the additional details revealed at the recent Concert Recital.
Oh wow, that’s so cool, [spoiler]I didn’t even know that about reproductive organs! I totally get you in the endings as being split timelines, but I guess as mentioned by @Hailinel the actual “final” ending would seem to be “canon” if you want to go that far, given the other games’ path follow the final endings from each of the other games. I guess the idea of timelines / time itself is a broader idea explored through the franchise as a whole, so any other games in the series to come (or other pieces of media) could go in any direction. Another thing that’s open to interpretation based on personal experience of the player I guess!
Also you don’t need to apologize for being “that guy”, I’m in a mode right now where I just want to learn everything I can about this world, so by all means! xD