Stellaris Streaming AKA Striven Solar Strategy


#41

IAWTP. Also I said during the stream that I don’t agree with wiping the Reyubb High Kingdom off the map like our current war goal is aiming for. I think Austin got a bit bloodthirsty.

Like I initially said in this thread, this war should have been about our border dispute and nothing more (taking the strategic nebula and chokepoint away from them). I never would have suggested changing our policy to open war if I thought the directive was going to turn to annihilating or subjugating another culture, even if they are slavers. The whole point of liberation wars is to basically free a people and have them adopt our way of thinking. By taking them over, they’re still going to be shitty slavers, they are just going to hate us for ruling over them. Austin said that he could fix that by just giving their home planet away or whatever, and yeah that technically does work (you could also vasselize them but having a vassal that despises our ethics is a whole other bad can of worms) but that doesn’t really solve the problem. They’re always going to be shitty authoritarians/slavers and they’re still going to be a problem. Either our problem or somebody else’s problem, but definitely a problem until we properly win an ethics war against them.

If we’re sticking to the RP of the Striven, I think what we’re doing now is just bad, no matter how you abstract it. I suggest we finish this war but settle in white peace and try again in a decade either as a liberation war, or as an open war for the nebula. The instant we win an openly declared war with a claim on another culture’s entire population we become conquerors and not peacekeepers.

Thoughts?


#42

I think they won’t always be shitty slavers, if ya take their slave government and slave institutions away, and set them up with a independent democratic government. As it’s been discussed, you can grant independence to planets and sectors.

The slavery gene thing is really ignore-able modifier to a population.
It doesn’t majorly connect to the political mechanics of the population to the degree that they will always be authoritarian. There’s political drift even in those societies - more so when there’s intervention, especially with the later patches to the game.
You can have those folk living happy in a civilization, if you do the most of the things that promote population happiness.
There’s also a direct increase in the happiness of liberated slaves that occurs even in races with the slavery gene.

It’s okay to disagree on the means of the liberation of the slaves though.
Within the mechanics of Stellaris, is a liberation war a more effective way to free slaves, than to conquer a single planet and set it free?
It certainly feels like a quicker method, but in the grander scheme, it seems like a fun interstellar drama regardless of success. It’s fiction, and the striven don’t need to be perfect to be interesting.
Knowing that, I appreciate your perspective on how the Striven should be roleplayed.
I don’t think the Striven would care to protect Slaver Culture, but I can see the argument that their current actions might abstract to eliminating Reyubb culture.
I think of it more as a change than an elimination, as cultures often undergo. Especially when hostile actions occur between governing bodies.
ofen
Personally, I’m okay with military intervention with just cause, if it’s effective.
(Putting a permanent stop to slaving neighboring governments paying off bandits to abduct millions of your citizens)
It’s the equivalent to someone stealing away and enslaving a major city’s population of your home country.

I think what you do after that intervention is the important / tricky and corruptible step. Ensure those folk are taken care of, while no longer being a threat to you and their previous slave population

I won’t discuss the current war situation, so that folk who haven’t caught up won’t be spoiled, but I’m interested in how the other allied slavers and member of the grand praxis engage.


#43

There’s also honestly the consideration that since stellaris is a video game and not real life that you also have to work around the game mechanics. Stellaris, as much as I love it, honestly isn’t a ton of fun past the exploration phase if you aren’t constantly involved in/planning for wars because the diplomacy game isn’t all that fleshed out and won’t be until they do another major overhaul. It’s also set up so that the game will punch you right in the gut if the player nation isn’t a well established superpower with a large industrial base by the time midgame/end game crisis events start firing off. The AI is simply not well enough equipped to deal with them, or in some cases almost completely useless (the contingency).

If it’s 2350 and you aren’t capable of repeatedly fending off 60k fleet power and are near a marauder empire you’re soon either a vassal to the great khan or wiped out completely. if it’s 2450 and you can’t handle the contingency by yourself you’re hosed because the AI literally will never send their fleets to the crisis planets unless you destroy the defense fleet first yourself. At a certain point you basically need to make sure you’re expanding your territory through aggressive wars just so that everyone doesn’t get eaten when your AI ally wastes all their minerals building and disbanding a construction ship over and over in a loop.


#44

Yes. Liberation war causes the culture you win a war against to adopt your ethics, which, in our case, immediately frees their slaves and moves their govt to be in line with ours (see: what we did with Khassam). Using open war to simply conquer a single planet takes over that planet and adds it to your territory but the population of that planet maintains the ethics they held prior to being subjugated. That means that while you control them, you will be battling unrest and new factions will spring up within your populace that are very VERY not pleased with the way you are running shit. Making them a vassal or granting them independence merely puts them back in play, but their way of thinking isn’t changed, they will go right back to what they were doing before we conquered them. They will continue to hate us and our way of life only to a much more severe degree.

When Austin changed the game to allow open wars as opposed to liberation wars only, the pitch was that we were going to use that open war policy to solve a border dispute (we want Reyubb’s nebula, and it’s impossible to make territory claims while liberation wars are in effect) but it quickly turned into “hey, Reyubb only controls one planet, if we take it over, they’re just off the board and we own them!” If we were going to go that route we SHOULD have just kept our policy on liberation wars and done basically the same thing, declare war on them to impose our ideology on them. That way we free their slaves AND turn them into an ally, instead we’re just erasing their territory and adding a hostile planet to our core worlds.


#45

Part of the issue with the mechanics is that in a liberation war it doesn’t seem like the Striven can prevent allies from taking planets. And if they’re now in a federation, doesn’t that mean that other federation members could just jump into the war too and repeat what happened in the last war?

Direct control seems to be the way they can most control the result of the war, without letting other groups slipping in to take a piece.


#46

This isn’t a fault of liberation wars. This was a fault of them inviting really bad allies to their last fight. They invited a third part with them when they liberated Khassam and it just so happened that that party claimed a bunch of their territory. With a federation I believe if you declare a liberation/ideological war, the entire federation votes to join under those rules, thus can’t make claims and demand systems as a war goal. Honestly I haven’t spent enough time in a federation while warring, so I don’t have a ton of knowledge about it.

Either way, someone claiming territory from another culture isn’t a bad thing IMO. There are a lot of good, strategic reasons to want to do that, but what we’re trying to do right now with Reyubb is to remove them from play completely.


#47

Just got caught up on the latest stream. (FYI, it only exists on Twitch, whereas I was watching the previous ones on YouTube, so I didn’t even know it had happened until I found this thread!)

I’m glad there is some action happening now, though I wish it hadn’t ended so soon. I also noticed that Andrea Braun’s re-election took place at age 102! I’m very new to Stellaris, but something tells me she might not make it to the end of her term :frowning:


#48

There’s probably less concern with regard to allies taking a piece of a pie, as their current allies weren’t slavers.


#49

I hope they get more time the next time they stream Stellaris, I think some of the decisions, like changing war policies and rushing their fleet, felt due to the pressure of making something happen within the time-frame of an hour long stream, I don’t think Stellaris lends itself well to playing speedily.

It’s by no means beyond salvage though, with enough Stellaris experience amongst the crew I think the Striven will come out okay. One thing I’ll say is if they’re intent on focusing on war goals they should double down on ship upgrades and capacity, building a fleet in bulk to further rival the Reyubb.

I do like that we’re taking down the slavers one by one, and I think the Ztrakpor have stuck around for long enough and done enough harm; at least they can’t expand much besides declaring war on either Striven of Khessam.
I feel a bit bad for the Khessam actually, they paid for their disgusting ideology, but lost many of their systems to another slaver empire, who are now intent on crushing them at their weakest (and likely keep Khessam POW’s in chains on the claimed planets).

When the galactic North enters peace time after Reyubb and Ztrakpor has been dealt with it’d be nice to see the Striven focus more on the original communal goals and form a stronger federation, but I understand that these hostile kingdoms, especially on Striven borders are immediate threats.


#50

eyyyy Stellaris stuff is on sale this weekend on the ol’ steam bucket


#51

Maybe this isn’t fully on topic, but I’ve been listening to a lot of Clipping.'s last album “Splendor and Misery” recently and I didn’t realize until now how much the two synced up.

Concept afrofuturist sci-fi album about a man who leads a slave revolt on a ship and falls in love with the ship’s AI? I mean like, c’mon man.

Anyways this is all to say, fuck the slavers and long live the Striven Solar Empire.


#52

Yo, I love Splendor and Misery! I didn’t even connect the two, but like. Damn, you right.


#53

Damn, with Stellaris on sale I might just finally give it a shot and see if my MBP can handle it. From what I’ve read it’ll be rough but doable, and after watching all these streams I’m dying to meet some weird space birds.


#54

This was the first one I managed to catch live! I usually only get to watch the recording, so it was fun. Pretty bummed about the current status of the Striven Commonwealth, but honestly tough moments like these are the ones you really remember in Stellaris.

Failing to defeat the Reyubb Kingdom in a disastrous war, the death of a key political leader in the Commonwealth, and the gut punch of the Ztrakpor subjugation of the Democratic Khessam State we fought so hard to liberate? The tragedy is almost cruel, but definitely salvageable.

Given the enforced armistice with Reyubb, I think preparing defenses against Ztrakpor is the best option. I don’t remember what their Starbase situation is like in that area, but a stronghold combined with a forward shipyard could be pretty useful. They might also want to do some retooling of the fleet makeup, since we can see what the Ztrakpor fleet would look like with our new sensor link. It might not be a bad idea to start thinking about chipping away at Chiselion either, but that’s a big task.


#55

Wow, that was a real nail bitter of an episode!
Never sure how much to comment on in the forums with regard to spoilers.
Need to brush up on the BBcode, but I had a lot of fun following this!


#56

Amazing episode this week! Some mistakes were made and this war was definitely winnable, but honestly the way it played out was more interesting to me than another decisive victory. If we start wiping our neighbors off the map too soon this could turn into a boring squash. There are mounting threats all around us right now and having to juggle 2 potentially equally matched enemies at the same time is going to lead to more fun streams.

Stick with it Waypointers! As you guys said, Stellaris is kind of the easiest of all the streamed games to knock off the schedule for the week but for me personally these are the most rewarding and interesting streams. I wonder what these are like for people less familiar with Stellaris.


#57

when you reply there’s the toolbar that pops up above the text box; hit the gear then select blur spoiler.

Great episode. Continuing to eliminate all these slavers is great, though I do wonder how these warmongering tendencies will affect the…ideal society that ya’ll created at the beginning of the series.


#58

So, this was a nail biter of an episode and…to be honest our navy just isn’t doing a lot of work versus equal FP of reyubb ships. So since Austin and Rob haven’t messed around with the ship designer much I figured now might be a good time to talk about the various weapon and classes in stellaris and how they do (or don’t) work.

By default, all non strike craft or missile weapons come in 1 of 4 sizes. Small, Medium, Large or XL Spinal mounts. Not all weapons come in all sizes and XL weapons only come in that size and have to be mounted to battleships specially fitted for them. smaller guns have better tracking and can hit smaller targets better while larger guns are really only good at hitting big targets, XL weapons can also only shoot things within a forward firing arc of the battle ship (because they’re part of the ship’s spine) and are exceptionally terrible at hitting small targets with 0% tracking.

First there are energy weapons, which are broadly good against armor and less effective against shields. Lasers (S,M,L) are the basic form of this, having +50% damage to armor but -50% damage to shields. Plasma throwers (S,M,L) are the better versions, having a bigger damage penalty against shields but doing double damage to armor AND having a bonus to hull damage which is the most important damage type as that’s where ships have most of their HP. There are also the special energy weapons, disruptors(S,M), cloud lightning (L) and arc emitters(XL). All 3 completely bypass shields and armor with disruptors doing uninspiring damage all the time while cloud lightning and arc emitters have perfect accuracy but highly variable damage making them unreliable. Particle and Tachyon lances are XL only weapons

Second, we have kinetic weapons which are better against shields but suffer against armor. First up are railguns (S,M,L), they’re essentially the reverse of lasers but they have higher dps, presumably because there is no direct equivalent to plasma throwers for kinetics. Next up are artillery (L) and cannons (XL), they’re big beefy sniper weapons that outrange almost anything else and can only be mounted on battleships. Both do extra hull damage and either have a higher shield damage bonus (artillery) or lower penalty for armor shots (cannons) than railguns. Last but definitely not least are autocannons (S only) they do double to shields and do bonus 50% damage to hull while doing 25% damage to armor. Autocannons have EXTREMELY high base damage for their size, a tech 1 auto cannon has the same dps as a max tier plasma cannon of the same size letting them mulch anything they get close enough to fire at.

Next are guided weapons which come in 3 types regular missiles, swarm missiles and torpedoes, all 3 ignore shields but can be shot down by point defense. These recently received a major overhaul in 2.0 to make up for them being extremely lackluster. The most significant and important difference is that they do not have different sizes, they simply take up guided weapon slots, meaning a corvette mounts the same weapons as a battleship if it’s guided. Regular missiles do moderate damage with a bonus to hull and travel somewhat quickly. Torpedos are slower but have more hp and do more a lot more base damage and bonus versus armor instead of hull. Swarmer missiles fire in clusters and in theory are meant to overwhelm point defense systems with things to shoot down, in practice they are mostly useless as point defense are currently very bad at their job.

Which brings us to point defense, it comes in 2 varieties (Flak and PD) and takes up a pd slot. PD will primarily focus on shooting down enemy missiles and strike craft but will shoot nearby ships if they have nothing else to do. Flak are supposed to be lower damage but better at hitting strike craft while pd are better for dealing with missiles. In practice, their damage is so low that they almost never shoot down missiles or torpedoes before they can hit and don’t do enough damage for strike craft to care about, needing ~12 hits to take down a single fighter.

Lastly, there are strike craft. They can only be mounted in hangar modules on cruisers and larger and ignore shields. On paper, their damage is fine but in practice they have terrible uptime when trying to put it out there. They have about 1/3rd the range autocannons(the shortest range small weapon), Can only fire in a forward arc like an XL weapon and can only turn at the same speed as a corvette. They spend most of their time setting up for attack runs instead of actually firing and have to be closer to do it than a normal ship to do it. They are currently utterly irredeemably TERRIBLE.

So, what about actually designing ships using that. Honestly there’s a lot more that could be said about hull sizes but this is already a giant wall of text.

The TL;DR version is that right now corvettes completely overshadow the other 3 hulls when it comes to general use right now.

Corvettes are faster which is very important on a strategic level now that you have to cross systems to jump out. With better thruster tech and using afterburners in the aux slot (which make them even faster in sublight) they can also easily hit the 90% evasion cap making most larger weapons unable to shoot them. They’re also cheaper to build and have the highest disengage chance out of any ship type meaning you have to replace fewer losses and can do so more quickly than building bigger ships. Because of how guided weapon hardpoints work and that they’re the only hull that can effectively mount autocannons, you can get 1 torpedo/fleet power by making torpedo hull corvettes (1 G slot/ 1 s Slot) and put an autocannon as the other weapon to have a very high dps ship that is nigh-unhittable.

Destroyers main gimmick is they can mount a lot of PD, or mount a large weapon slot on a very small hull making them cheap efficient killers of big things. Unfortunately neither of those gimmicks are particularly useful at the moment and they can’t mount any torpedos.

Cruisers are middle of the range, being capable of fitting almost any non xl-weapon in some capacity. They used to be your durable front line that would primarily be used to soak fire but now they’re very overpriced for what they provide. Notable for being the largest hull that has PD slots.

Battleships can only mounts large or bigger guns making them ineffective at hitting things that aren’t other battleships. This makes them questionably useful against AI empires, but their high health pools and ability to mount extremely long range/high damage weapons does actually make them useful against crisis fleets which are mostly big ships with special weapons that screw over corvettes.

Last are titans, they’re expensive flag ships that require the apocalypse DLC and you can only have 1 per 200 naval capacity. They have a special titan only weapon that does a ton of damage and have offensive and defensive auras. They’re not super great at actually shooting outside their main gun but the auras are nice.

The TL;DR version of all of this is that if you want a ship that will win you wars no questions asked without fiddling around with the ship designer too much, put torpedos and autocannons on a corvette design and stick an afterburner on there. Prioritize thruster/afterburner/torpedo/AC tech for more damage and better evasion. Then just build that until the cows come home. Mix them 50/50 with 2Plasma/1AC corvettes if you’re feeling spicy. This is not to say that there aren’t other fleet compositions you can with, it’s just the most broadly applicable and easiest to implement one.


#59

I can speak from some experience, as I started watching these streams being completely unfamiliar with Stellaris, or even any game of this type really. I got super fascinated by the play style and decision making, so finally I bought the game for myself a few weekends ago when it was on Steam sale.

This was the first time I watched having now put 25+ hours into the game and it was interesting. I definitely followed things a little better and learned a few new tricks, but my mind was also drifted more to “How would I handle this?” than just purely enjoying the stream for what it is. I still agree this is one of my favorite streams that Waypoint has done thought, I hope they get back to a semi-regular schedule with it soon.


#60

That’s awesome that it actually got you into the game. Games like this tend to seem intensely overwhelming when you’re just observing them, starting them fresh and have little/no prior experience with the genre. Once you get your hands on them and are able to just pause it and poke around menus and read tooltips they make a lot more sense and simplify over time. The best part about my first couple of months with Stellaris was knowing more and more about the game every time I lost and restarted.