The Defenders (and the other Netflix Marvel stuff)


Charlie Cox actually trained a lot and does a lot of the action. Something cool about whenever Daredevil fights is that his fights can go on longer because they often switch him out with his stuntman for stamina reasons rather than stunt reasons. It’s how they have stuff like the hallway fight in season one or the part where he brawls with all the ninja at once for a while in season 2, they switch places when he’s off screen.

I actually like how Jessica Jones fights a lot because until she meets Luke Cage she never actually had to fight in her life. And both her and Cage have to hold back so they don’t just pulverize whoever they hit. So her fighting style is literally “adult shoving away some toddlers.”

Finn is soooooooo awful, it’s horrible. Like there’s some brief moments where you see Charlie Cox and him in the same shot fighting and it’s like, why does he even exist when you already have Daredevil as a martial arts character who fights the Hand? Everything about Iron Fist’s show and this version of the character is awful.

If I had to rank them it’d go…

Daredevil Season 1
Luke Cage
Daredevil Season 2
The Reb Brown made for TV Captain America movies from the 70s
Iron Fist

Luke Cage starts to come apart towards the end like seasons 2 of Daredevil, but I have a lot of respect for Luke Cage being the only one of these so far besides some of Daredevil season 1 that, aesthetically, HAD to be filmed in NYC.

Also fun trivia, there’s an apartment they reuse across shows, both Jessica Jones and Daredevil have broken into my friend’s building. :smiley:


I think you have a point about the Villains. While Luke Cage never really got unenjoyable for me and liked where they ended up in some of their last episode (that Method Man cameo was so fucking great I definitely lost a good deal of enthusiasm when Mahershala Ali’s character got offed. The female antagonist was still good and slimy easy to hate, but the main foil for Cage just seemed so cartoonish.


I haven’t watched Iron Fist or Defenders yet and honestly I’m still on the fence. Jessica Jones and Daredevil season 2 left me feeling cold and frustrated respectively. Luke Cage was better, but as @Lassemomme said when Cottonmouth bites it the series really falters. Also, like all Marvel Netflix shows I’ve seen, it was 2-3 episodes too long.

Should I give Iron Fist a watch? The most positive thing I’ve heard about it is that it’s fine. What about Defenders? I like Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock quite a bit and I think I would like Krysten Ritter’s Jones more in a story with less demonizing substance abusers as out of control monsters or weak-willed fools and really darkness in general.


I think Iron Fist is watchable if you reserve yourself to the fact that they seem to leave out a lot of what makes the character interesting in order to save for upcoming stuff, and that the fighting isn’t as good as Daredevil… god it sounds bad when you write down on paper, actually. I will say that there’s definitely more levity in Iron Fist than Dare Devil and especially Jessica Jones.

I’m not sure I agree with your description of how Jessica Jones depicts substance abusers, but it’s been a while since I’ve seen it, so I might be wrong. The only addict I remember from the show was Malcolm who was literally being mind controlled into a substance abuse by Kilgrave from the beginning, so I guess I just always read it as “this guy is being mind controlled” and not “this guy is on drugs”


Another reason I didn’t want to watch Iron Fist is because I knew he never gets the costume. So if they aren’t doing the character justice, has worse martial arts than Daredevil, and can’t even put him in the deep-V green-and-yellows then it seems like a pass from me. Maybe I’ll just read the wikipedia summary.

There was also the whole thing with Nuke and his addiction to the pills, which in the comics is a control mechanism to keep him in line with whoever is paying him. Not great either, but it has more to do with post-Vietnam War America’s fascination with soldiers of fortune than substance abuse. In JJ, he takes the pills himself and it just seems like he doesn’t know how to stop. Thus he becomes an unstoppable psychopath who must kill because the drugs make him coocoo!


so I adored Jessica Jones finally got around to Luke Cage this week in preparation for Defenders which finished yesterday. Luke Cage was good, Defenders was okay. I really liked the weird physicality Charlie Cox brought to Daredevil so I’m probably going to go back and watch those now. I heard enough bad about Iron Fist to not want to see it and Defenders did nothing to sell me on it. his friend seems cool though.

I think the thing about Jessica Jones that really sang was that it was About something, all the different threads in the story ended up having something to say about women and what that experience is like in the world today, it made the whole thing feel like a very cohesive whole. Luke Cage touched on some of that if only by dint of having almost exclusively African American characters (which was very nice) but I think it lacked the clear thesis of Jessica Jones. Defenders was a perfectly serviceable superhero story, it kind of just felt like a strong Agents of SHIELD arc. it also suffered a bit from something Jessica Jones season 2 is going to have to deal with, which is how do you follow the sheer menace of Kilgrave?


The Defenders was alright, weaker than the sum of its parts and Danny is so predictably idiotic that it ruined a lot of scenes he was in. In particular, I think I called the part where Elektra dodges a punch while standing in front of the wall they need Danny to unlock the second they implied the Iron Fist was the key. Like, come on dude. But Luke Cage got some good scenes, and he’s my favourite of the Defenders as characters so I was quite happy about that.

My personal ranking,

  1. Jessica Jones
  2. Daredevil, season one
  3. Luke Cage
  4. Daredevil, season two
  5. Defenders
  6. Iron Fist


Everything that happens in Iron Fist is so basic and shitty that you literally don’t need to even watch Iron Fist to follow what’s going on in the Defenders. All you have to know is that he disappeared as a kid and was trained by magic martial arts monks to beat the Hand, but he’s a complete dumbass and sucks at everything. He’s super rich because he was the legal heir to a massive company and financial empire which he got control of upon his return to the US. He has a friend named Colleen who’s ten times cooler than him. Season one of Iron Fist.


wow that sounds exactly like what a bad/surface-level adaptation of Iron Fist would be. Thank you


Having not watched Iron Fist I pretty much got everything I needed from The Defenders, besides getting the backstory of his infinitely cooler lady buddy sword fighter.
That said, if I would have watched The Defenders before watching, let’s say, Jessica Jones, I don’t know if I would have gotten invested or interested in the character from her presence in the show alone.


What I’m getting from this thread is that people were way more into Colleen than I was, I barely paid her any mind at all.


I think it’s partly because especially early on there are a number of scenes that are just her and Iron Fist and you’ve got to latch on to somebody and it sure isn’t going to be Iron Fist. I would put her firmly as the fourth best defender.


Much like other people, I watched all of the series other than Iron Fist, and I have no intention of doing so after watching Defenders because there’s only so many times I can listen to him say “These people took EVERYTHING from me” multiple times while for some reason forgetting he owns 51% of a multi billion dollar corporation. Also just. An unpleasant shitty brat in general.

Jessica Jones was probably my favourite of all the series but fuckin… she just felt completely irrelevant and empty and it was tiring to watch. Given all this could have been in 8 episodes was a bunch of silly fun, and I’d be fine with that, a lot of the dialogue seemed extremely phoned in. Charlie Cox is still really hot, though, so that was good.

I hope Misty gets a cyborg arm.


I think the best thing the Defenders did is it handled a lot of table setting for the next seasons of everything. so they can all begin in media res.


Yes I think Defenders did a good job of bringing them all together, then flinging them apart in a way that has them ready for their next seasons. I think they all have very pivotal seasons coming up. cage lost it;'s way a bit in the second half, as did DD S2, Jones has to dealt without Killgrave (to an extent) and Fist just needs to show some goddamn backbone.

I mean they are all a few bad ratings away from trouble anyway I guess, but they all have key moments coming up.

Plus Punisher of course. As others have said, most of these seasons have been an episodes or two too long, Defenders benefited a lot from being the 8 I felt, and I wonder how this character will do when he has a full run to cope with.


Yeah, right at the end, between the shot of Iron Fist crouched on a rooftop, I got really upset before the final shot, with DD on the bed, alive then I got super excited again.

I just… the Iron Fist stuff does nothing for me. Not the character, the story, the power, none of it. But I like everything else, so having another story more or less centered around him/his story/etc. wasn’t awesome, and I’m excited for the other three shows continuations if/when they come.

Who knows, maybe after two shows Iron Fist is, as a character, going to become something other thank nails on a chalkboard to my subjective enjoyment.


That’s interesting, as for that final shot I was like oh no, it’s obvious he will come back but don’t show us already but I can totally see where you are coming from with it.


I think if they give Iron Fist a mask in season 2 it will go a long way to fixing some of the fighting. It even makes sense storywise since in the comics Danny’s mask is pretty similar to DD’s first black costume, just a different colour and you could work in that Danny is wearing a similar costume in honour of Matt’s death.


I haven’t had time to get around to Defenders yet, I’m expecting it to be mediocre but fun. I only managed to watch the first episode of Jessica Jones; as some one with mental health issues, I’m hyper protective of my mental state and I just can’t handle mind control-like stuff. The end of episode one was just too much for me. Hearing how everyone praised the show here, I’m wondering if it is worth powering through before Defenders.

On the topic of Iron Fist, I liked pretty much everything about that show except Danny. Colleen was great, all the Meachums were fantastic and their arcs were the most interesting. I like that they showed different factions within the Hand that led to some moral ambiguity.


Jessica Jones is really good, but also grim. I’m sorry to say that if the mind-control aspects of it bother you I wouldn’t expect you to stick with it, because it gets very heavy, and very dark.
Still, it is very good, despite one insufferable character.