The Defenders (and the other Netflix Marvel stuff)


It’s a great show but it’s extremely dark, not just from a mind control standpoint, but because they show a full spectrum of abuse throughout it. Every pair of people that interact with each other regularly are in abusive relationships where one person is being taken advantage of, controlled, or exploited in some way. Between that and Jessica Jones herself being a shitty person it can be a hard watch.


Yeah, Jessica Jones is fantastic, but mind control and manipulation is like, the thing it it’s not afraid to go dark with it. I think you get satisfying catharsis by the finish, I mean obviously Jessica Jones comes out the other end of it. but it really puts her through the ringer. if you can stomach it I think that only makes the ending more satisfying but, ultimately only you can judge where you’re at emotionally, no judgement. Me I’m still trying to work up the nerve to watch Babadook one of these years.


I’ve only seen Daredevil Season 1, but I am interested to try to watch Jessica Jones, Luke Cafe, and Defenders. People’s lists are definitely going to be helpful in helping me prioritise them, since I struggle to watch TV and would rather just watch what’s worthwhile rather than struggling with the, well, less good stuff.


So, I just finished binging Punisher season one and… The more I think about it, the more I like it. It’s slow in some places and some of the subplots feel a little bit aimless in the beginning but maaaaan does it get good as it ramps up towards the second half.

Bernthal deserves hella credit, at this point I’m ready to crown him for the best performance across all of Netflix’s Marvel output, with the only potential rival being D’Onofrio’s Kingpin. While he blew me away in DD2, I did wonder how well a character like that would hold up as the main character over an entire season, but I can’t say it was ever a problem for me. Bernthal manages humanize Frank in a way that I really liked, as well play enough on the rage and anger to remind you that, like, this is not a nice man, and he does some extremely not nice things some times.

Right now I would say that it is firmly planted as my third favorite Marvel series behind DD1 and Jessica Jones. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that they liked JJ because it was about something and I feel like that is the case with The Punisher as well. It feels deliberate and meassured in it’s approach to it’s subject matter in a way that I really appreciate.


I’m around the mid-season so far (and too new for real spoilery chat) but I’d say why I think JJ rises above is not just having something to be about but how well it handles it. Obviously the show is a very US perspective (although they really don’t hold back on their NRA/2A character as small-time evil/poison for veterans) but beyond the main theme of PTSD*, it certainly doesn’t just ignore the big vigilante question: does the state monopoly on violence have a coherent claim (especially as it relates to imperialism and globalised society). Punisher is a show with few clear “good” characters so almost all things it voices come from the mouths of those it marks as morally broken (under the reading that Castle is not the hero, which I’d say his friends here make textual) - When a CIA man says they have nightmares so others can sleep sound it’s read as reflection of Castle and a lie that indoctrinates/justifies evil, not as statement of ethics. So while JJ had space for the show to have a voice, here it’s mainly left to consequences as noted to form the discussion of morality (without the nuance of a trusted voice who backs up the point with theory).

None of this subject matter/theme is new (take any show that depicts military or intelligence services and it has to at least brush these issues) but so far it feels like it’s avoiding the worst of the pacing issues (helps to have at least a few plots all being juggled into what is obviously going to conclude with everyone crashing into each other) that other MCU Netflix shows have. Still not great and despite the Hannibal writing talent (showrunner here), they don’t appear to be trying to hold those long pauses on emotional notes, so when the cutting is a bit slow it just feels like they should have cut earlier (Hannibal and Twin Peaks recently have certainly shown there is a place for giving emotions time to sit and slow down pacing but I don’t even think they’re going for that here, it’s just MCU shows aiming for 55-60 mins lack the pace of a 43 min cut show).



okay THIS THREAD IS GOOD ENOUGH i’m gonna complain about Runaways, the TV Show (it’s not Netflix but it IS marvel tv… universe… stuff? ostensibly)

Did you watch Runaways, the TV Show? Probably don’t bother. Or, if you do, just watch like the first two episodes then the last episode. Much of the rest is irrelevant.

Episode One: the kids see their parents do a ritualistic murder in their secret ritualistic murder basement
Episode Two: a parents-focused episode dropping back a day and leading back up to the ritualistic murder basement scene - fine I’ll give you this one
Episodes Three through Nine: HEAVILY parents-focused, dealing with their interpersonal dramas and relationships with their kids - the scenes/plotlines we get with just the kids and their interpersonal dramas are wildly inconsistent (making the ‘team as family’ declaration at the end not feel earned at all) while they tread water ‘getting evidence’ (which is immediately destroyed, anyway)
Episode Ten: the kids confront their parents, Run Away, and are framed for the aforementioned murder. None of the plotlines from episodes three-nine pay off or are really relevant at all.

A few weeks ago I said it felt like they had eight episodes’ worth of plot stretched over ten, but after seeing the finale: they had like two episodes’ worth of plot.

I’m trying hard to not be ‘in the comics,’ guy (I’m disappointed by, but can live with, the apparent cutting of the more fantastical stuff like Time Travel and Magic) BUT changing the parents from ‘actively choosing to do evil out of love for their children’ to ‘being blackmailed and manipulated into doing evil to accomplish, something?*’ sucks and doesn’t really make much sense

*‘save the world’ via clean renewable energy but turns out they were being lied to about that so they don’t even KNOW what they’re doing

the actors playing these kids deserve so much better than this show


I haven’t finished the season, yet, but the plot is progressing mind-numbingly slowly. The acting is decent and I like the characters enough to keep watching, but I haven’t been this frustrated by nothing happening in a show since the first season of Once Upon a Time.


I have yet to feel the need to watch a Marvel show outside of the Netflix series and, after initially feeling guilty about not watching Agent Carter and it getting cancelled, continue to be proven that’s the right course of action time and time again. Runaways is just more of that.

New Warriors is going to be hard to pass up though. I love Squirrel Girl so much.


Have we talked about Legion? I’m very curious and I’ve heard some good things. I just don’t have access to network TV, so I missed it.


It’s definitely come up in a few threads about good TV but I’m not sure there’s anywhere we’ve had a big chat just about it (and search isn’t showing me much beyond a few mentions in the TV thread). Most of my friends were big into it (plus the Idle Weekend love) before I got a chance to see it and even with the hype, I was pretty impressed (definitely some of the best superhero stuff on TV). Even purely in terms of visual style alone, it’s a show to take notice of if you’ve got access to a streaming option to catch up.

You do have to wonder how much money Fox weren’t prepared to spend on it to only do an 8 episode run and even that is about 1/8th reused footage (seriously, I know it’s somewhat needed to remind audience who didn’t watch it all back to back but it really feels like they might end up falling into a clips episode at spots and when you’re not filling a 22-24 episode season then there’s no excuse for clip shows to save money). The effects work is nice and probably shows just how far you can get with a combination of cheap professional CGI and fx nowadays without being a top-tier show (when even boring office shows are using extensive CGI for painting in a fake city so they can film outdoors in other locations, it’s pretty cool to see some of the more shiny CGI effects also appearing in cheaper tiers of show that aren’t just SyFy/Canadian/the children of Babylon 5).

I’m really looking forward to seeing if the second series (now commissioned for 10 episodes) manages to take what worked in the first season and leverage a more significant backing (thanks to the critical acclaim) to really go places.


I very much enjoyed Legion, even though as @Shivoa says, Fox didn’t give the impression they were backing it much.

I am halfway through Punisher. Overall I am liking it, I think for the performances more than anything else, as the overall plot I don’t feel particularly invested in (unlike his arc in DD). Maybe it ramps up in the second half of the season though.


Out of the four individual defender series I liked Jessica & Daredevil S1 the most, Luke Cage fell apart for me in the second half and Iron Fist I was expecting super camp with nice fighting sequences and instead got some real messy fighting sequences.

I’ve still to watch Punisher and the rest of The Defenders. I think I just lost interest halfway through the Defenders only cause we sorta binged Daredevil & Iron Fist beforehand.


The Punisher is very bloody but my god is it good and Jon Bernthal might just be my favorite part of the entire Netflix/Marvel universe. He is just unbelievably good in that role and he manages to humanize a character that could have been such a fucking disaster in any almost any other sittuation.


Yep, he is great for sure. Holding my interest pretty much on his own.


A day before Jessica Jones season two arrives, I finish Punisher.

I veered wildly on the bad guys in the series but there is no doubting Bernthal is absolutely terrific in the lead role. I am no violent man but man did I want him to beat the crap out of certain people, which he does almost every time. I am now very interested to see what they do with the character, perhaps more so than others. There is a real opportunity to delve into his character away from “war” and I hope they at least try for that in the early parts of season two (I assume there is going to be one).

Jones will also be interesting. I have no idea what to expect from this season. I am going in knowing there is a chance I will fall off quite heavily, but also a chance I am engrossed. We shall see (in about two months, given my current pace of watching these things).


I’ve been chanting ‘hellcat’ non-stop since jess jones 1 and I don’t intend to stop

nah idk it might kinda suck I’m not hugely optimistic tbh


have zero expectations for anything with superheroes in it so you can just say “well, maybe there was some value in that and it wasn’t a total waste of time” after every episode and movie you watch


Double points if you compare it to the rest of the franchise/extended universe it sits in.

“Wonder Woman was by far the best thing in the DC current cinematic universe!”

“Jessica Jones is, compared to Iron Fist, literal perfection on screen.”


The Kilgrave arc was so dang tense, personal, and intriguing that I’m kind of wondering if series 2 will try to do anything close to it, or if it’ll just faff about with mystical ninjas.
I’m not a big Marvel fan, but I’ve had a lot of fun with most of the Netflix tv series, so I’m definitely at least interested.


My guess is, with the way The Defenders ended, season 2 of JJ will probably focus a lot more on her relationship with Luke, which I think would be interesting if for no other reason than it being a departure into a thematic territory Superhero shows generally don’t visit.

That being said, It’s going to be nigh on impossible to top Kilgrave as a villain, both as a performance and what he stood for.