@Forrest Me too. It’s very hard to feel bad for a player that is making more money than what I’ll probably see in my life in just a year. The way I’ve gotten better at getting out of that mindset is looking at it in the way that these players careers are going to be at most 20 years, but most likely much shorter than that, as well as, putting their body under intense physical strain. So this huge paycheck for is to compensate for the possible bodily harm/determent felt years later and them not being able to work in the NBA when they’re 40 and older when most people are still working. Thinking about it this way has helped me be better about being in a better mindset with the money that these players are paid, but I still have troubles with them from time to time (especially now that the players are younger than me for whatever reason).
To add onto the discussion of drafting players, I think the draft is essential too. While yes market size doesn’t matter as much as it did previously, I think it still matters. Just look at the teams AD said he wanted to be traded too. It was essentially trade me to LA or NYC, while saying he only wanted to win. If you know anything about the NBA the Lakers or Knicks aren’t really associated with winning over the past couple years. Also one thing that Pels writers have been discussing with a possible AD trade is the change from a city like LA or NYC to New Orleans. As a young new millionaire, would you want to go to LA/NYC or to New Orleans especially if you’re from Ohio, California, Missouri, Illinois, etc.? I know New Orleans is a great city for young adults, but I grew up in the area. The same argument could be said for cities like Atlanta, Charlotte, and many more I’m sure. Having a well enforced cap space would make it so everyone couldn’t just go to the big markets. But would a player take a smaller contract than what they’re worth because they could get more endorsements/opportunities in this bigger market and make up the difference of that contract? I think they’re just too many “what ifs” with getting rid of the draft right now, and I don’t see it happening anytime soon.
Also I just thought about the change to the draft lotto. A change to a free agent for new players would completely stop tanking I agree, but look at the top 4 from this draft lotto. Pelicans - started competitive, but season derailed by injuries/AD trade drama, Grizzlies - wanted to win games, but just didn’t have the talent, Knicks - legitimately tanked, Lakers - only missed playoffs due to Lebron injury. Only one of the teams in the top 4 was trying to be bad. Now I doubt this will happen every single time now, but still it shows that just being bad to be bad to get the top pick isn’t the sure-fire thing it was in years past. I disagree about the rookie free agency putting pressure on ownership. I think the front office/management would have the same amount of pressure on them as they do with “drafting the right guy” and all the other pressures of putting together a good team now. There just isn’t a good way to put pressure on the owners of the teams. You can protest like Suns/Lakers fans have done lately, but that didn’t really do anything. You can boycott the games, but then you hurt the people working the arena and open the discussion of moving the team since the attendance is down. You can call out the owner, but then they can just ban you from going to games like Dolan did. Unfortunately there just isn’t a good way to put pressure on the owners right now.
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Here’s an interesting argument I’ve seen that I’m curious to get folks’ takes on. If there’s no draft but each team still has a set amount of money to work with (that’s how it works right now right?? If not oh no this falls apart pretty quick but I guess you could implement that concept) then a “big market” team won’t be able to sustain having all the stars that want to go there. So a small market team could offer a bigger salary and also potentially the chance to let a player really shine. Maybe a team like the Grizzlies (my home team) can offer 2-3 rookies really good salaries that another big market/very good team couldn’t match because they want to keep their current hot-shit players.
Then these rookies could end up having a lot of spotlight and room to themselves on this team because they’re not surrounded by superstars. Or something. To me this sounds plausible but I could be missing key factors or otherwise not understanding something. I’m very much a newbie.
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This is what @Navster was discussing. So yes there is a set cap space for every team. Teams can go over it, but that incurs a penalty that builds each year the team is over the cap. The idea itself is a good one, but there are just so many variables and what if’s that I don’t think it would work this way.
The problem is I think no matter what there is always going to be a big market with cap space to scoop up the best rookie. So this off season the Warriors don’t have any cap space, but both the New York Knicks and Los Angles Lakers have max cap space. There are also the other big markets such as Boston, Miami, Philly, Brooklyn, Chicago, and Houston that could have that max space to sign the best incoming rookie. I think there are just too many big markets that players would just overlook teams like Memphis, Atlanta, Phoenix, Sacramento, New Orleans, etc. because there will be a big market/flashy team to offer them what they want.
Personally, I think the draft is the best option to keep the NBA competitive and spread out the best players the best it can. That doesn’t always mean that every team is competitive, but I think this past year saw a more teams trying for a playoff spot than previous years. I don’t know if there is an easy answer to this scenario. If you implement this rookie free agency, I think the league gets hurt by certain teams starting to consolidate star players. Now players are hurt because they have no real say on where they go and are under one teams control for their first 8 years of their career. Adam Silver, the commissioner, has been very vocal about making changes and such to better the draft process and the league so I hope that he and his team can come up with some interesting ideas. As well the the Player Association coming to the NBA with new ideas to help empower the players more too. Out of all the major American sports leagues I’m the most confident in basketball in making a drastic change to empower its players.
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It sounds like there’s a few too many “big markets” to make the free agency stuff work, then- also I find it interesting that Atlanta isn’t a big market. I guess compared to NYC or Chicago it isn’t? In any case I guess with this many big cities it seems like there does need to be a bit of manipulation (not in a bad way) to keep things more balanced.
Thanks for laying the case out - and I feel similarly that the NBA can probably figure out a way to make this better.
Atlanta had issues with attendance for years, there’s just not a lot of interest for the team. Now, imagine how that changes after a great rookie season from Trae Young and then potentially bringing in Zion. Suddenly there’s a lot more reason for people to get invested, but even if you’re decent it’s tough to bring in fans. There are very few markets that can count on good attendance even when they’re doing well.
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Here is an article about disbanding the NBA draft that I thought I’d share since we just had a long discussion about it. It’s from 2017, but really the only thing that has changed is the change in lottery odds.
I don’t know if I agree with the idea that the draft rewards losing. I view it as more of a way to bring top talent to a bad team. I do agree that it seems to reward incompetence though (i.e. the Cavs winning the 1st overall pick 3 out of 4 years just a few years ago). I’d love to see some sort of drop in percent to get into the top 4 picks if you’ve been in the lottery for 5 straight years or something. All my same issues with going to a rookie free agency system stand, though I do like the ideas of rookie exceptions. I think there will always be a big market team with cap space to get the best player from smaller less glamorous teams like Charlotte, Phoenix, San Antonio, etc. Also I think the free agency system would embarrass incompetent teams more, but I don’t think it would make it more likely that the teams would become less incompetent because of this. A team’s/franchise’s incompetence all stems from the owner, and ultimately their willingness to pay money to make sure that their people have the resources they need to not be incompetent. There just isn’t a good way for fans of a team to put pressure on the owner if they’re doing a bad job, and until there is some way for fans to do that I don’t know whether there is a difference between the draft and free agency systems.
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This so much.
There’s no greater competitive advantage than a good owner and no bigger disadvantage than a bad one.
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I never really noticed it before the recent changes to the Pels’ ownership. Tom Benson is/was a New Orleans legend. He owns the Saints and bought the then Hornets to keep them in New Orleans he was always held in the highest regard in that city. But now that he has passed away and his wife, Gayle, has taken over the ownership of the Pels it is a night and day difference. Tom just wanted to win and at any cost, outside a cost that would affect his bank account, and for that we saw horrible decision such as the head of the Saints operations also being the head of Pels operations. Using the same trainers and such for both the Saints and Pels up until about a year or so ago. Just incredibly dumb and incompetent decisions.
Now that Gayle has taken control, it’s like having the blindfold taken off. I never knew a basketball team could be run so well, and just how poorly it was run previously. Gayle has empowered people that know basketball to come make decisions, and give them the resources/money to do that. She hired two of the best at their front office positions in David Griffin and Aaron Nelson. She is also reportedly going to spend just under 5 million dollars to update the training facility for the Pels which is only 6 years old. Before Gayle I remember other fans and I would say “Let’s see how this plays out” or worry about of what if’s and all in reference to a move the front office made. Now, pretty much any move is met with “I trust the front office and Gayle to get it done and get it done right!” Just having Gayle and the new front office in place makes it feel like a completely different team, and makes rooting for the team feel completely different.
I wish I had some sort of tip for the fans of teams with bad ownership, but I really don’t know what as a fan you can do. The Pels just got extremely lucky that their old owner died, passed the team onto his wife, and she was much more interested in basketball than him and knew she needed to put and support smart people to run the team to bring it success.
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Not to take away from the draft discourse because I have enjoyed reading and learning immensely… but man I enjoy being able to watch Kawhi decimate a team that I don’t root for. It’s hella cathartic.
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He’s so. fucking. good.
This is what I envisioned from the Raptors all season long. The defensive versatily they have in their rotation is just… it’s staggering. They literally don’t have bad defenders in their rotation and they’re all wicked smart, tremendously coached, and most of them are capable of guarding several positions. Kawhi is the spear tip, even when playing on one leg he’s still clearly the best player in the series and while the defensive effort they’ve put towards bottling up Giannis is very much a team effort, there’s just no way it works as well as it has without a Kawhi-like defender out there.
I promised myself I wouldn’t get my hopes up for a non-Warriors championship, but… Man, they are such an unbelievable defensive team, I’m seriously struggling to remember the last defense that impressed me the way these guys have. I’m honestly starting to wonder if they just might be able to make it interesting if they get there.
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Watching Kawhi this playoffs has been a real treat. He’s just so good. I knew Toronto had a good defense, but watching them continue to execute their strategies at the end of games while being short handed is ultra impressive. I figured without OG they’d struggle just from needing more large bodies to absorb minutes. Turns out top 5 players playing like top 5 players will take care of that.
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Turns out all you need to be a legit championship contender is to go and get one of the best players in the world. Who woulda thunk it? I love DeRozan, but man is it clear to see what a ceiling we were under before the trade.
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They’re so fun to watch in this series. I’m pretty certain they’ll make history as, according to the Starters, only the 6th team ever to come back and win it from 0-2. Home court, Siakam playing like a goddamn star, Kawhi being Kawhi, an insanely competent coach…
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Watching Kawhi in (I think) the 4th quarter make back to back 3’s by just faking out his defender (might’ve been lopez I can’t remember) was so beautiful. God dang. And I love Pascal Siakam. And the great narrative of Van Vleet’s son being born and suddenly he’s out there kicking ass? Damn! This is so fun to watch.
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Vanvleet somehow going from completely unplayable to actually good has been huge for the raptors the past few games. I think the bucks have the better team top to bottom, but they look completely mentally out of it at this point
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Fred giving his son no credit for getting out of the slump is chef’s kiss.
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Lmao did he say this in an interview or something??
Ya in a post game interview after game 4. Can’t seem to find the footage though.
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@Navster congratulations my friendly forum friend! I’m sure your pessimism is not wavering considering what comes next, but you’ve got a helluva team
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Watching Lowry just uncontrollably smile was so great. I was just so happy for him, the Raps, and the fans. It makes me have a bit of hope that a team can make it to the Finals that hasn’t made it before. I’m excited to see Kawhi and the great defense of the Raps unleashed on the Warriors. This will be a fun finals!
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