We Chat About Sherlock Holmes and DIY Pokémon on Waypoint Radio


#1

We're making some interesting deductions about Pokémon today.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/qv4yg3/we-chat-about-sherlock-holmes-and-diy-pokemon-on-waypoint-radio

#2

Yo I am 100% about Waypoint’s pro-Elementary “anti”-Sherlock position. Elementary is so good and such a stronger mystery show overall with a version of Holmes who feels like a person who wants things


#3

It’s a real shame none of them know Pokemon well, most of the things/ names they mentioned are already pokemon in some way.

In particular, meet Purrloin

On Sherlock, the BBC show was fantastic for 2 seasons (excluding the very end of S2) and should have ended there. Rob is letting the rest of that show poison the first part of it. And part of the character is that sherlock IS a sociopath who exploits people around him, and is a dysfunctional addict, the lack of character growth and inability to change is always meant to be the flaw that defeats him, and isn’t meant to have a good ending. It is as much about the limitations and downsides to being a genius sociopath, about how pure reason and refusing to form an emotional connection with anyone is insufficient and a mistake. A parable about the common intellectual fantasy of existing without emotion.


#4

Since it was inspired by this podcast, I thought I’d link my short blog-like forum post on Swapnote here. I didn’t wait to put it in here because it isn’t directly relevant to the podcast discussion. It’s about my experience of drawing in Swapnote which Austin mentioned near the start of this podcast on his Purloin drawing tidbit.


#5

Very glad to hear that Waypoint has the correct opinion on that BBC Sherlock series, ie that it fucking sucks.
e: my abiding memory of Sherlock is one of the first couple episodes (the only ones i watched because they all suck) taking that bit from i think Sign of Four where Holmes looks at Watson’s family heirloom watch he’s just inherited and does all his deductive shit on it and doing it exactly the same but with a phone because thats what ‘modernising’ means, just shove phones and computers everywhere but change nothing else


#6

[synopsis for every post-season two episode of Sherlock]

“I’m so clever.”

Not that clever, though.

“No, not THAT clever.”

See, I told you.

“I’m more clever than that!”

Wow he’s the most clever man alive, huh? Good crime everyone, let’s go home now.


#7

It’s been too long since we heard from Austin Walker, #1 fan of Emmy Award-nominated CBS primetime lineup anchor The Mentalist: He reads between the lies.:tm:

Big oversight to discuss adapting Doyle without mentioning Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century, imho


#8

Psych is also a great show but I came into that one right off of Monk so I was already primed for the comedy-mystery mash up it had going on


#9

I cannot follow yall in this thread down this path of “Series one and two of Sherlock were completely good actually!”. Its always been an uneven show, and its take on Irene Adler in s2 was outrageously messy. That it managed to take a further nosedive past that doesnt absolve it of its previous flaws.


#10

The Purrloin part physically hurt me :frowning:

Purrloin is a real Pokemon, Austin!


#11

As I was saying in the chat , I’m probably with Zacny when it comes to Sherlock. The first two seasons (which I watched) were uneven enough that I didn’t enjoy Season 2 (@roguesquirrel points out Irene Adler, the portrayal of whom I absolutely loathed) and I haven’t pursued it since. Even in the first season, some parts are very weak (the second episode?).

If you didn’t catch this live, y’all would be remiss in missing this Twitch clip.


#12

Sherlock definitely does not go over well with me nowadays. I remember loving the first 2 seasons back when i was a huge Moffat fan (now i despise him and credit him with ruining doctor who for me).

I think the thing that finally tipped me over to the side of hating the show was how they handled the cliffhanger from season 2 in season 3 by being incredibly rude to fans for daring to try to solve the mystery. I’ve honestly never seen such contempt for your own audience in a show before or since.

That being said i’d love to find some time to watch Elementary. It definitely seems like the better show.


#13

Given we’re dunking on Sherlock, for those who haven’t seen this yet, here’s two whole hours of well argued critique https://youtu.be/LkoGBOs5ecM


#14

That’s a great video, and a good look at Moffat’s strengths and weaknesses. I don’t think, however, that his take on Holmes was inherently doomed. I think you could have made this more character-centric take on the material work, but he consistently undercut it by “taking back” pretty much every development that occurs. Compare to Elementary, where the character has changed pretty profoundly from his near-arctic S1 and S2 personality. He is a flawed genius whose struggles with empathy are palpable, and so is the growth.

I loved the first two series of BBC Sherlock, and can still enjoy them for their style and spirit. But to @Scaridium’s point, I think the later series only poison the first two in that they throw the already existing flaws into such stark relief. The show’s circularity, its reliance on cheap tricks and “gotcha” editing, become much more grating after the nothingburger of series 3. Also, S1 and S2 were building toward this epic confrontation with Moriarty and self-sacrifice by Holmes that, in S3, is revealed to have been essentially meaningless.

Last thing: two great Sherlock Holmes movies that are badly underappreciated: _Without a Clue _ starring Michael Caine as an idiot actor pressed into the service as the brilliant Dr. John Watson’s (Ben Kingsley) literary creation. Second, Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Silk Stocking, which stars Rupert Everett and is just a terrific take on Holmes. Really tackles his addiction and psychological dependence on casework. But it’s mostly just a great mystery with great performances.


#15

As we all know :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:, Edgar Alan Poe’s The Purrloined Letter is a seminal topic of Lacanian psychoanalysis. Which is apt because the protagonist of the story, Auguste Dupin, is generally acknowledged to be a prototype for Holmes.

The eponymous purloined letter is of course the extra “r” in purloined, hiding in plain sight.


#16

I loved BBC Sherlock. Loved it. I thought it was building up to something great. It was not.

The Holmes point and click adventure games are pretty great. Crimes and Punishment especially.