We Dive Way Too Deep into Assassin’s Creed Mythology on Waypoint Radio

With a few different Waypoint editors taking some time off this week, Danielle and myself are joined by one of our more regular writers, Cameron Kunzelman, to break down my piece arguing Assassin’s Creed should ditch its sci-fi trappings. Somehow, we end up talking about the Hellraiser movie that takes place in space, a bizarre D&D campaign called Spelljammers, and why we get hung up on the notion of “it’s good for a video game.”

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/zmqyz8/we-dive-way-too-deep-into-assassins-creed-mythology-on-waypoint-radio
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Whenever people talk about stuff like this I am always sad that they don’t bring up Elder Scrolls and all the insane meta-lore that’s in it. When games people talk about TES it’s always the more generic Bethesda Openworld stuff that gets focused on and not the weird science fantasy shit like CHIM, Amaranth, aethernauts and the Godhead. Spend an hour on the Teslore reddit and your brain will melt. It’s great.


I feel like that’s a different situation as none of that stuff is actually in any TES games, it’s all stuff written in external media by a dude who no longer works on the series. It might be interesting to talk about but it’s not really the same as having multiple long-ass exposition segments about some inane nonsensical frame narrative.

Its all referenced in game actually. Also, they talk about game lore thats not in the actual game in this podcast.

For those of you who enjoy the epic, time-spanning apocalyptic narrative in the Assassin’s Creed games, I recommend turning this documentary on during a chill-out moment and listen to this dude’s long-winded story. It’s around an hour long and ASMRish.
Content Warning: Occultism

I am here for Spelljammer.

I think I read the first book of The Cloakmaster Cycle back in the day. Maybe it’s time to go back and finish the series :thinking:

I was both interested and intimidated by Spelljammer as a meta-setting for the other D&D settings. A narrative device to tie separate narratives together is common in genre fiction: alternate earths in Marvel, Might and Magic’s Corak and SHELTEM, and the framing devices for series like Quantum Leap or Sliders. Maybe even Assassin Creed’s Abstergo story line?

They intimidate me by expanding the scope of lore I think I need to know to get the most out of the setting. Especially for DMing a D&D campaign that felt like a big task. That overlooks the fun to be had dipping in to different settings and switching things up.

I want to Wikipedia while listening to look at the Doom novels and, oh boy, they didn’t even scratch the surface on the podcast, huh.

For example: demons are not actually demons, but creatures made by an alien race called… “Freds”?

Also, this fun note listed under “differences”:
“In the game, Doomguy can carry 50 rockets, in spite of them being quite large. In the books, the rockets that Fly picks up as ammo for his personal rocket launcher are the size of small batteries, allowing him to feasibly carry 50 of them.”

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Huh I only have vague tangential awareness of what Spelljammer is, but I always thought Planescape was D&D’s tie-the-multiverse-together thing. I guess they have more than one.

Yeah, TES definitely came to mind while I listened to this. The best thing is that I keep forgetting most of the stuff so every time I read up on it my mind is blown again.

I have also read way too many Halo novels. And I liked them.


Planescape and Spelljammer share a lot of elements and they overlap quite a bit.

I think we need to talk about the DOOM comic book that is also called Knee Deep in the Dead.

It’s as straight forward as you can get with a plot, DOOM marine wants the BFG, but it’s also probably the most faithful rendition of the feeling one has when they are in the zone killing demons in DOOM. Page 8 when he gets hit by the imp was basically my inner monologue as a teen. You realize you messed up but you still want to blame this demon.

As for guilty trash reading, in elementary school up until high school I was really into Sonic and as such read a lot of the comic books. Honestly the comics aren’t terrible if I recall and I remember thinking I wish they would use their plots for the games instead of whatever nonsense Sonic Team put out. As an example at one point Dr. Robotnik dies in order for them to retcon the name change and appearance to Eggman. They do this by having his cousin murder him followed by the introduction of an alternative time line Robotnik (Eggman) who as a last ditch effort to kill Sonic and his friends in his time line turned himself into a robot. He ends up succeeding and with no one else to fight decides to take the dead Robotniks place.

If you like light hearted cheesy sci-fi comic bullshit with way past cool writing that sometimes gets kinda dark and/or bizzare it is worth checking out.

Talking about Dark Matter and the quick clones made me laugh, I remember thinking the same thing, “boy they are explaining the shit out of this technology”.
It’s also funny that they keeping using them throughout the series, it’s like the prefect writing device. “Main character just got killed, NOPE, it was a quick clone!”
It’s like watching a tv version of Bill and Teds excellent adventure. All deaths can be easily overwritten.

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I like to imagine that the twitter tiff between Cameron and Patrick that preceded this episode culminated in this DM exchange:

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Absolutely essential to any discussion of Assassin’s Creed Lore: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Al_Gore