We Talk Evo 2018 and 'Dragon Ball FighterZ' Rivalries on Waypoint Radio


#1

New York Rob—aka Rob Zacny—stopped by today to tell his tales of the city. Joining him are Natalie, Austin, and Danielle, all of whom have excellent games and Waypoints to share from the weekend, including Hollow Knight, WarioWare Gold, Dead Cells, and the most exciting match-ups at Evo 2018.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/594kgd/evo-2018-dragon-ball-fighterz

#2

Okay but can we just talk about that Knowkami comeback


#3

pssst, the waypoint forums has an explicit rule against posting pirated content. (as hype as it was and how much I too want to be able to share with folks)

Here’s the evo channel’s twitch archive time-stamped to the Knowkami vs Kubo match: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/293460209?t=08h31m58s


#4

Really enjoyed the DBZ grand finals, I was worried for Sonic Fox after that reset but his Android 16 grabs had me cheering for him to the end.


#5

one of my favourite matches this year was the Guile mirror match between Caba and Daigo. unbelievable seeing a relatively unknown player step up and challenge a god like Daigo with his own character. this match and the SFV grand finals were both incredible to me, because you could watch the underdogs adjusting their playstyle and learning from the best of the best in real time. watch how Caba is able to change up his tech throw game by the end of the set, and if you’re checking out the grand finals pay attention to how Problem-X’s anti-air and air-to-air evolve over the course of the matches.


#6

Fox switching seats was probably two-fold. Yes, it ices GO1 a bit and gives Fox some time to think. You see stuff like this all the time in tournaments, but it’s usually more in the form of players going back to character select and taking their time there; making it look like they’re thinking about switching characters or just taking their sweet time picking their colors. Players are often given the same advice: stop just mashing “rematch” if you’re getting blown up. You need to stop the momentum and think about why you’re losing.

More importantly in this case though I think it was a technical thing. Fox’s new team is a fairly recent switch for him, so I can see him being more comfortable on P1 side right now. The thing with his team is that (much like GO1’s pre-nerf Adult Gohan team) it involves what is essentially a permanent block string–that is, of course, assuming he doesn’t mess it up.

Characters will rarely switch sides BEFORE a hit happens in a fighting game, so by starting on P1 side, a side that he feels more mechanically solid on, Fox has a much higher chance of executing that block string. This means that he’s less likely to mess up his pressure, which with his team set up is the only way that it would ever stop (unless GO1 manages to block for ~25 seconds, which he did once or twice.) And because in DBFZ when a character dies everything resets back to that neutral position, Fox gets to just start the process from the beginning.

Get opponent to block -> pressure forever until you get a hit -> end combo with a level 3 super to get a knock down -> you’re at advantage, so you repeat the process with a mix up on wake up (your opponent gets one Get Out of Jail card here if they have sparking) -> get a 2nd combo to kill a character -> back to neutral -> repeat.

This has been the DBFZ meta since GO1 showed up and rolled over everybody with A. Gohan months ago. The game’s lack of defensive options make this the absolute strongest meta for technically proficient players. Nobody can block forever, but in this game you often don’t have a choice; reflect isn’t good enough, and for whatever reason they chose not to include any of the instant block, barrier block, push block, or burst mechanics that you usually see in other games.


#7

I totally had to find the Sonicfox/Goichi matches after Austin started talking about them (I did come back to finish the pod once I was done, tho haha). Really great stuff! Man, there is seriously so much going on in that game, it’s hard to keep up, but it was damned exciting :smile:


#8

the furry community is still going pretty wild over Sonicfox’s victory. People are really rallying behind him! I’m really enjoying the salty takes from people who think that he shouldn’t have won.


#9

So some information on Toadette that I was reminded of from this podcast:

In Mario Party 6 there is a team battle mode and every combination of two characters in the game have a team name. The team name for Wario and Toadette is “secret friends”

Clearly Toadette is Wario’s government contact who helps him hide the money laundering scheme that Warioware covers up.


#10

I love that the head TO for Evo actually acknowledged how smart SonicFox was using a rule that’s been in evo for years as a global rule for all games and is congratulating him for pulling off old school icing strategies.

SF knew he was tilting thanks running cold from the wait for GO1 to get out of losers bracket for GF. Since he plays controller. P1 side favours him as well as you explained (And also this is especially true in NRS games where he made his bread and butter. You are more likely to land first attack and get the meter bonus on the P1 side in MK X and IJ2 so there is tactical advantage. Which is probably why he knew about the rule being global in the first place). So they hit the Bracket reset. 3-0. Tilting bad. Sonic Fox knows he knows he can ask. Pulls out the trap card. And that’s where GO1 made the mistake by declining it because it goes to coin flip. Now Evo made a bit of a mess out of it because it had to be translated and relayed to both and it took 5 minutes to do the coinflip. But they essentially reset themselves to neutral and SonicFox just goes in ruthless and raw to score the 3-0.

But here’s the genius part. If GO1 had immediately said “OK” to it and the translation would go through quickly. He would have called Sonicfox’s bluff and still be red hot. P2 side in DBZF doesn’t have the same advantages it has in other games and GO1’s execution is gosh darn flawless in the blocks he was throwing on the right side of the screen that he could have caught Fox out on a whiff or dropped input and just punished relentlessly. There’s so much “Would of, could of” its staggering just based on a mind games level. GO1 got done old school dirty and its still an incredible victory by SonicFox.


#11

Who do I need to follow on Twitter/Youtube to learn about DBFZ as a game without having access to the game itself? Like people who are doing in-depth stuff on characters and posting lab videos and following the scene and all that.


#12

Personally, I found jmcrofts’ videos pretty accessable:


#13

There isn’t really an “Evo” thread on the forums, so I guess I’ll post it here.

Every year I watch a lot of Evo. Morning to Midnight, all three days, I’m at my computer watching every match I can. The past few years I’ve been trying to make the most out of Twitch’s clip feature to highlight the best moments of the many tournaments going on during Evo weekend and share them on social media.

But this year more resources were dedicated to side tournaments than ever before (sometimes up to three of the official evo streams hosting finals for them at once). 2018 quickly became a year where the biggest benefit of attending Evo (getting to see all the tournaments outside of the main games) was a lot more accessible to those at home. Sure there have always been side streams, but their connection can be widely inconsistent, either due to problems with the internet at the venue or just lack of proffessional equipment. But now we had over two dozen games showing anywhere from top 4 to top 12 with a crisp connection where you don’t miss a frame.

Naturally, my computer looked less like I was streaming a tournament and more like I was a security guard staring at 20 different screens to make sure no one is breaking in.

Which means a lot, a LOT, of good moments weren’t missed by the community, only missed by those who didn’t have the time to watch or knew they were happening to begin with.

Anyway, long story long, if you want to check out the best of the best from those tournaments you probably didn’t watch (especially if you only watched the finals on Sunday), check out this thread. I’ve got 150+ going right now and haven’t even hit the main games beyond BB:CTB.

I’ve included the match context and competitors in each tweet and if you follow the link to the video, you can see the whole tournament if its still up on twitch.


#14

Thank you for this thread! I was on vacation and spending time with my family for most of Evo, so having a curated list of great moments is a bit more accessible than burying myself in vods.