I agree that it’s “be well-behaved or be so skilled at mischief that you don’t get in trouble and appear well-behaved”. I like it a lot.
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I admire your documentation here.
I always interpreted it as “be nice or if you’re going to be an asshole at least be really good at the game”.
I have some issues with this phrase. To me it suggests that being “good” (nice, considerate, caring polite etc) is completely optional if you’re “good at it” (Talented, successful, popular, desirable etc)
This concept seems very much at odds with Waypoints broader philosophy and I’m not quite sure why Danielle gravitated towards it other than it sounds vaguely catchy and a cute turn of phrase.
I’d much rather “Be good and be good at it” as it’s encouraging all of us to be a decent human being as well as striving to improve what we do.
Whilst really minor, it’s been bugging me for a while as I think being great at something doesn’t give one permission to be a jerk.
No, that’s demanding us to be good and be good at something. Some of us just suck and a woman who is good at both saving lives and potentially ending them telling us not to isn’t going to make it better.
It’s much more respectful to tell people to be good or be the best at being bad. You do you assorted cat burglars listening to the Waypoint podcast as you stakeout the guard changes at an art museum.
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Like every inspiring thing that I hear, I associate it with virtue ethics. We must endlessly strive to be good but, also, to work at being good, not to take it for granted. Being a good person isn’t a mask that can be worn, but a process of endlessly working towards being Good.
I’m sorry, I have a very loose grasp of philosophy and it all turns into self-help books in my hands.
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Y’all are twisting “be nice or nice at being naughty” a tad too much.
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I never really thought about it but if I had to interpret it I would say it’s similar to fake it til you make it in that if you strive to be good you will eventually be good at it.
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I like this take the best tbh. There are some reads of it that I like less, like ones where Danielle (a very impressive person who is good at a lot of shit) is asking people to try to approach her level (which, I don’t actually think she is asking that). I think originally it probably just sounded good, but I like the “fake it til you make it” read
Sometimes mates the world doesn’t allow you to be “good” so you might as well strive to have the best outcome from whatever situation you happen to be in. Idk you could spur some huge morality debate here if you really wanted but personally I don’t think it requires that much dissecting, it’s just a fun thing, I really wouldn’t blame Danielle if she hadn’t thought too much about it.
I have some issues with this phrase. To me it suggests that being “good” (nice, considerate, caring polite etc) is completely optional if you’re “good at it” (Talented, successful, popular, desirable etc)
Honestly this is how I always read it also, and it doesn’t quite sit well with me either.
Oh well.
I only started listening around episode 118, but at some point it must have changed, because Danielle now says “be good and be good at it”. I was really struck by the succinct well-meaning and positive statement, to me it seemed obvious… be an actively good person. The combination of that, “Miss You”, and Austin’s “Peace” always ends the podcast on a high for me.
I went back to episode 56 and sure enough it started as an ‘or’. (I’ll leave it to the historians to work out exactly when it changed!) Agree with @Calum and others about it not sitting as well with an ‘or’, so thumbs up for the tweak.
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My ideal Waypoint Radio sign off:
Danielle: "Be good or be good at it"
Patrick: "And if you can’t be good, be careful"
Austin: "Pea-"
Rob (interrupting): “PEACE”
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My understanding is post-election, Danielle wanted the sign-off to be less snarky and more inspirational. Hence the change from “or” to “and”.
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I always took “Be good or be good at it” as the corollary to Shepherd Book’s “If you can’t do something smart, do something right,” from Serenity.
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yes
An alternative interpretation is similar to “learn the rules, before you break them.” I have encountered this idea in martial arts and programming. Listening to Three Moves Ahead and reading From Masher to Master make me think it can apply to games as well. Follow the rules, until you are skilled enough to break them.
I like this interpretation because it avoids the unsavory moral implications that schnool, Calum and others already called out.
“Be good and be good at it” is better advice all around.
Ok so I’m not sure what this forum is meant for, but I was looking for a certain song title on google that I could only remember some of the lyrics to and came across this website as it was the first result on google. The hip hop artist Lil Wayne raps the lyrics “be good or be good at it” in song in 2010 (Eminem - No Love ft. Lil Wayne).
It’s an old saying but basically means be a good person and if youre not a good person, be good at doing the bad things you do.
I thought Danielle was saying “be good AND be good at it”. Is that “and” really an “or”?
I believe it’s been both! Used to be “be good or be good at it” originally and at some point in a podcast episode Danielle decided it was time to demand both and changed it to and. I like the different meanings and focuses they have - found the change a bit jarring at first but it’s grown on me now.
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