So I haven’t seen a thread pop up for one of the most audacious shows this year, so I thought I’d start one. Six episodes in, Watchmen continues to be incredibly riveting, and may well already be in my pantheon of best TV shows ever. What do y’all think? Does it do (Hooded) justice to the source material? Or is it all just one big joke?
People are mad about this Hooded Justice thing, and fuck knows why. I couldn’t remember who Hooded Justice was from the original comics since he’s such a minor worldbuilding figure anyway. I just assumed he was the grandpa the whole time, until the Snyder parody TV show reminded me he was supposed to be some German guy.
Anyway, I was worried this show might actually be a satire of “is this the future the liberals want”. But it seems to really be committing to its premise of there’s something fundamentally rotten at the core of American history and no matter how much progress we make, those demons are still hiding.
I don’t know what Ozymandius in space has to do with that though…
Haven’t watched the show, but I am HERE for the discourse around whether or not Alan Moore is an asshole.
I love what I’ve seen of this show so far, but the excerpts of interviews with Lindelof have me mentally preparing for this whole thing to go bioshock infinite very fast.
The Hooded Justice discourse is just baffling to me. It’s like the perfect retcon in that it’s not a retcon at all. Literally no details from the original work has to change to make the Will Reeves reveal work. He’s shows with white skin in a single panel of the comic? Well that’s just because of the makeup HJ uses to duck the omnipresent racism in American society. He disappears without a trace and not revealing his identity? Would you really think a black man would expose himself like that. And what about the alleged Nazi sympathies? Well if the only connection you have to your parents is a piece of WWI German propaganda extolling how well they treat minorities, maybe you’d be optimistic about the regime there. It all fits together so amazingly well and uses the white comic book industry’s blindness to race to expertly reveal a fascinating new morsel about Watchmen’s world.
I dunno, as a fan of the original comic and a person of color, I am enthralled by the way they are making Watchmen explicitly tied to American blackness. It doesn’t feel tokenizing or trite, it feels of a piece with the themes of the original work but from a different perspective. I absolutely love it.
Maybe, but I don’t imagine you’d be a cheery dude if your publisher pretty objectively fucked you over and cynically tried to get your approval for cash grabs, like, all the time.
Oh, and I haven’t seen the show, but Lindelof’s self-flaggelation over the fact that Moore wants nothing to do with anything Watchmen related was fucking embarrassing, full stop.
Literally perfect execution in my book. Also, was there ever any allusion in the original comic book that Hooded Justice was black? I don’t know if I made that up but I thought there was some aside at least about it.
It’s been a while since I read the book, but I don’t recall hints of Hooded Justice being black. Granted, I read him that way given the American symbolism in his costume and the fact that I generally assume characters are PoC’s unless otherwise indicated.
Funny thing is, I used to think that Hooded Justice is black back when the Snyder movie was the only Watchmen I had seen through. In that movie, he sounded black to me as in the character’s voice is at a certain low pitch that I associate with black men.
This thing is either headed for Get Out’s direction but even more richly cynical, or Bioshock Infinite’s direction but even more grossly cynical, and I can’t think of a more fascinating and terrifying dichotomy of potential in recent mass media history.
My interpretation of the comics when I first read it was that Hooded Justice was Black, you know…because of the costume and all that alluded to lynching. I understood it, after, as a symbol of justice in america(you know, white supremacist who think justice is beating minorities up), but the interpretation the series gave us is what I thought first.
In fact, many of the things the series is trying to subvert is a reading that some people in minotiry groups and outside the US had of the comic. Looking from the outside Watchmen was a critic of American white supremacy, the series is just showing this to a broader audience
Episode 7 was fantastic, though I think I consider 6 & 7 companions in a part 1 & 2 kinda way. I liked the reveal, I had a sneaking suspicion about it with the amnesia talk halfway through the episode. Not sure they can pull it off because it changes the whole trajectory of the show.
Love that they told us from the very start that Manhattan was among humans. Also the trap door was the silliest thing ever, just the absolute best.
So curious where the final two episodes will be, but pretty sure we all know who lady trieus dad is gonna be.
Jean Smart saying “What the fuck are you doing?” was perfect.
I thought the graphic novel and movie were cool and interesting. So I figured this would be a fun show to just watch on my own, and not much else. Boy was I wrong! There is so much greatness in this show. I’m enjoying the ride so much, and watching the mysteries unravel. I can’t wait for the last two episodes!
I’m curious if they’re thinking of doing another season or if it would even be possible once this season is done. Also reading all the speculation is so fun. Is this what it was like watching Lost when it first aired? Because if show I can totally understand why it was such a cultural phenomenon.
I…I just…I need to sit down a little
Pretty much, yeah!
Important thing about the whole, “Hooded Justice loved Nazi Germany allegation” is that it came from far right-winger Hollis Mason (night owl the first) and as Peteypedia (an official HBO Watchmen lore blog) argued those allegations were incredibly doubtable to say the least
Like the only really reliable source of information about hooded justice from the original comic book is the Silk Specter flashback, everything else is hearsay at best.
Personally, I feel a little bit of a disconnect with the critical praise for the show and what it actually is?
I think a lot of the reveals are interesting and add great wrinkles to the Watchmen lore (specifically the Hooded Justice episode, the squidfalls being Veidt inventions, etc) but I feel like the way the show talks about race is pretty rudimentary since it doesn’t have much of a “so what?” beyond “racism is bad and pervasive in America”.
I’m really looking forward for more writing to come out when the first season concludes that can take a deeper dive into the show’s engagement with America’s racist history.
Episode 8 spoilers:
So a God walks into Abar and delivers a great pickup line. I absolutely love how they brought the good Dr into the story, likening it to Zeus coming down from Olympus to be with a mortal, if only for a time. The portions of the comics from Jon’s point of view were always my favorite, and I do tip my hat to the Snyder film for doing justice to his non-linear perception of time. But here it is more understated and expertly crafted. Yahya Abdul-Mateen II has emerged as a late series MVP candidate by showing a Manhattan that has grown as a person in his exile, and it so works that he loves Angela and the kids the way he does. I cannot wait to see how this all resolves.