With 'Destiny 2' the Crucible Is More Approachable, But Less Interesting


Is there such a thing as encouraging too much teamwork?

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/bjvz7w/with-destiny-2-the-crucible-is-more-approachable-but-less-interesting


Oh, wow. I guess I should feel worse for have an 0 - lots record, then.

If I totaled all the individual rounds teams I’ve been on have won, I think I would still not have enough for a victory.


This is a common period in most pvp multiplayer games, early in their life cycles. As people are learning the game, the maps, and strategies, raw force of the group is far more effective. We see this in MOBAs all the time after new patches, the “death ball” meta is back for a time, until players learn ways in which you can hold off a group of people for a while using only 1 or 2 players. This comes over time as people get better at playing, eventually they’ll be able to put 1-2 people on defense, keeping all 4 of your players busy, letting their other players cap all the other points on the map (or flank you from behind.)


It’s not really a matter of learning the game, to be honest. There’s nothing complex about the maps and the gun play is the same as it’s been for years now. Four average players will beat two other players of any other skill level every single time, just by virtue of how low the standard time to kill on kinetic/energy weapons is. The team of two could hit literally every headshot along the way and it still wouldn’t matter. The weapons that you spend the majority of your time with in Destiny 2 leave nearly zero room for individual skill, especially when combined with the changes they’ve made to player mobility. Everybody is equally slow and feeble now, so if you wanna kill somebody fast (i.e.: before they get out of your line of sight around one of the multitude of corners), you need to have more than one person shooting them.

Primary weapons were just as bad near the end of Destiny 1, but that game a) gave everybody far more opportunities to use tide-turning weapons such as sniper rifles and shotguns, b) let players move around the map probably twice as quickly, and c) had far lower ability cooldowns. The majority of the time in Destiny 2, you won’t have a grenade or melee available, you won’t have a super available, you won’t have anything other than a pea-shooter kinetic/energy weapon available, and you won’t be able to move fast enough to get away from two/three/four people with crosshairs on you.

A lot of problems in Destiny 1 would have been solved by simply improving the effectiveness of primary weapons, but now even that isn’t an option in D2, since it would only serve to make the firing squad method even better than it already is.


I know abilities set Destiny apart from other shooters, but I’m kinda glad all of the one-shots are so limited.

Power ammo spawns pretty frequently, so we’re not fighting over 1 or 2 spawns a game. No more turning a corner just to get stuck or wombo combo’d.

I do think there will be some adjustment as people figure out better strategies. Sticking together does work, but rockets and swords make sticking together just dangerous enough to consider splitting into groups of two.

I still think map knowledge is extremely important because you have to know the lanes, even if you’re running with your full team.


On top of Rob’s points I don’t like The Crucible because I don’t feel very powerful or that my abilities and build are making much of a difference. Here’s the solution: make it a MOBA. Respawning waves of npcs means that the players can be much more durable and taking them down would require coordination and smart use of abilities. Defensive building and distinct lanes of attack would give the map meaningful geography. The jungle could have a lot of verticality and require some platforming skill to navigate. It shouldn’t be as complicated and long but I think it could be really cool.